400 acres, 40 miles away.

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
most likely direct drilled then?

More and more are doing DD but not necessarily. The big farms I worked on would disc or tine the stubbles at least twice then again with the tine seeder to put urea into the ground before sowing with wheat. That's how 6 Quadtracs running 24 hours/day for 5 months managed 90,000 acres
 
theres a lot of differing opinions on this thread but not many facts lets see a rough breakdown of expected contractor fee and profit percentage split on this 4t/acre wheat land, so we can work out the potential margin, @Lexion1000 @ajd132 @Clive are the experts in cfas so lets see some figures
Hi Boss,
Here’s what you’re going to want to do. (I’m not going to). First work out a cropping on whatever land you’re talking about. Then do a whole farm budget and keep tweaking the cropping until you think you’ve got it right, remember it’s not all going to be 4t first wheats. Remember to use average yields and price, better to err on the pessimistic side. Also remember all of the various sundry costs that come with running a farm. Then minus off whatever you think the work is going to cost you ( contractors fee). Then work out a split with the land provider that you’re both happy with. Run a few different examples with high price high yield and low price low yield. Then make sure the splits work in a way that is satisfactory to both in any scenario so no one is getting shafted. They’re all a bit different depending on yield potential and size of the farm/fields etc Also more crucially what the land provider wants out of it. So it’s not that easy to just dish up some figures.
 
Hi Boss,
Here’s what you’re going to want to do. (I’m not going to). First work out a cropping on whatever land you’re talking about. Then do a whole farm budget and keep tweaking the cropping until you think you’ve got it right, remember it’s not all going to be 4t first wheats. Remember to use average yields and price, better to err on the pessimistic side. Also remember all of the various sundry costs that come with running a farm. Then minus off whatever you think the work is going to cost you ( contractors fee). Then work out a split with the land provider that you’re both happy with. Run a few different examples with high price high yield and low price low yield. Then make sure the splits work in a way that is satisfactory to both in any scenario so no one is getting shafted. They’re all a bit different depending on yield potential and size of the farm/fields etc Also more crucially what the land provider wants out of it. So it’s not that easy to just dish up some figures.
whats the typical agreement though £120 contract fee and 50/50 split with landowner keeping the sub? also what happens if its a low price/yield year and its a loss?
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Depends on the agreement
I think the Inland Revenue require the landowner 'farmer' to share losses or he is not sharing the risk and is not farming and therefore will be treated as renting out the land and lose IHT relief etc. Something to think about anyway.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I think the Inland Revenue require the landowner 'farmer' to share losses or he is not sharing the risk and is not farming and therefore will be treated as renting out the land and lose IHT relief etc. Something to think about anyway.
Yep must prove they are an active farmer hence sharing risk.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I think the Inland Revenue require the landowner 'farmer' to share losses or he is not sharing the risk and is not farming and therefore will be treated as renting out the land and lose IHT relief etc. Something to think about anyway.

Has that ever been tested in court by HMRC?
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I thought they had been after them but whether it made it to court or not I don't know

Antrobus & McKenna cases were testing the "appropriate" nature of the farmhouse to the size of farm and whether the farmhouse is used for running the business. A 400 acre arable farm with a £3m house with no "farm office" might be tricky.
 
I think the Inland Revenue require the landowner 'farmer' to share losses or he is not sharing the risk and is not farming and therefore will be treated as renting out the land and lose IHT relief etc. Something to think about anyway.
I actually thought the farmer was not allowed to share losses with the contractor. None of my agreements do. Otherwise it appears that he is not taking all of the risk and that the contractor is doing some ‘farming’. I would say it is grey area though.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
I actually thought the farmer was not allowed to share losses with the contractor. None of my agreements do. Otherwise it appears that he is not taking all of the risk and that the contractor is doing some ‘farming’. I would say it is grey area though.
Just reread that and I see what you are saying, all losses should be the farmers. But obviously if there are many losses he will be looking for a new contractor.............
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I actually thought the farmer was not allowed to share losses with the contractor. None of my agreements do. Otherwise it appears that he is not taking all of the risk and that the contractor is doing some ‘farming’. I would say it is grey area though.

To attract full APR the Farmer ought to be sharing trading risk with the Contractor. Of course first charges to both parties can be fixed at levels that mean there's little divisible surplus left to split with the Farmer. A tenancy rent dressed up as a CFA. It's not uncommon despite being a sham.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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