400 acres, 40 miles away.

ajd132

Member
Location
Suffolk
I’ve been thinking about this abit more. If it was 1000 acres, could be block cropped and everything could go straight into lorries into a central store at harvest I would do it. The massive killer would be back and forth all winter messing about with lorries and 3 crop rule.
 

ajd132

Member
Location
Suffolk
I’ve been thinking about this abit more. If it was 1000 acres, could be block cropped and everything could go straight into lorries into a central store at harvest I would do it. The massive killer would be back and forth all winter messing about with lorries and 3 crop rule.
Actually 2 crops would be okay on 1000 acres
 

ajd132

Member
Location
Suffolk
How would that work? Winter and spring wheat? If the land was grade 1/2 would you have a root crop in rotation?
So much depends on agronomics and what he deal is. You need to minimise time spent on the road. If it’s decent size fields and went with a bowser you could spray 1000 acres in a day. Or like you say do one crop 600-700 acres which is easy to spray in a day then rent the rest out for sugar better or maize. For me putting all grain on lorries at harvest to go straight into a central store like Camgrain makes it far more viable. Also find a decent local b and b!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Location
Lichfield
I once (must be 10 years ago now) looked at a 2000ac estate about 40 miles away. Did all my costings on farming it from our base with just some storage there

With hindsight it was the wrong approach - I should have put a man, tractor, trailed sprayer, drill, loader and combine on the remote farm and let him get on with it as a separate unit and just used existing resource when we had spare capacity and used the remote farms resources on existing land when it was worked up
 

ajd132

Member
Location
Suffolk
I once (must be 10 years ago now) looked at a 2000ac estate about 40 miles away. Did all my costings on farming it from our base with just some storage there

With hindsight it was the wrong approach - I should have put a man, tractor, trailed sprayer, drill, loader and combine on the remote farm and let him get on with it as a separate unit and just used existing resource when we had spare capacity and used the remote farms resources on existing land when it was worked up
That’s exactly what we would, actually would love to do that.
 

Bman

Member
Location
Cambs Essex
Only handling the grain at harvest is a must on any farm 40 miles away. Also need a good second hand fleet car parked over there for the ride home at night, you do not want to driving to pick people up last thing. Liquid fert no unloading of fert bags and having to be over there to do it. With 3 crop rule it’s difficult to combine it with one trip by the combine unless you have winter wheat spring wheat and winter beans
 

fudge

Member
Speaking as someone with no experience of this I cannot see the difference 20 or thirty miles makes. Surely the biggest decision is to put yourself on the road whether it’s 15,30 or 45 miles. It requires more commitment from your staff but, if you have the Human Resources, once you’re operation starts to spread why not spread it a bit further?
 

ajd132

Member
Location
Suffolk
Speaking as someone with no experience of this I cannot see the difference 20 or thirty miles makes. Surely the biggest decision is to put yourself on the road whether it’s 15,30 or 45 miles. It requires more commitment from your staff but, if you have the Human Resources, once you’re operation starts to spread why not spread it a bit further?
Don’t think there’s any doubt it’s do able, it’s just making sure it’s economical and worth the risk/reward.
 

T Hectares

Member
Location
Berkshire
I once (must be 10 years ago now) looked at a 2000ac estate about 40 miles away. Did all my costings on farming it from our base with just some storage there

With hindsight it was the wrong approach - I should have put a man, tractor, trailed sprayer, drill, loader and combine on the remote farm and let him get on with it as a separate unit and just used existing resource when we had spare capacity and used the remote farms resources on existing land when it was worked up
Exactly what I would do too
I think that could be really rewarding for all involved, if you can find the right person !!
Could be a great opportunity to train someone on your own farm to graduate there before moving onto a full management position eventually??
 

Tom H

Member
Location
Vale of Belvoir
Like anything, what makes CFA's successful are the people. We have a good few of them and would only have one with people who we very much get on with. Deal with people you like. I don't rent an acre. As I never seem to pay enough. Our average CFA return to the land owner has bettered a bullish FBT for a couple plus years now too. As Lee has mentioned above 50:50 split is best. Plus we are growing crops on someone else's capital, so cash flow is way better for me.
 
So for the landowner they are an active farmer, they keep the land in good order, can pass the land on to their kids on their death, and as they are 'in business' they can claim their pickup truck as an expense, sneak lots of home expenses through as office expenses etc?

For the contractor, lots of work, gets to justify a bigger Quadtrac and might make a profit, might make a loss, probably is lying to himself about his true costs in order to have the biggest Lexion.



I've got an FBT, but then I've always suspected i'm a mug.
why wait until death to pass land? risking big home fees that way you can get BPR when alive?
 
What alternative for a tax fearing landowner who can’t farm themselves ?

FAS (farming as a service) is probably the future though but unsure how the tax man would deal with it

I think CFA works well if the people are right and respectful of each other’s need to gain from the arrangement, certainly better than FBT’s imo

All arrangements seem to work best without agents as well ................
if the contractor is going to charge contracting rates up front to cover his costs it begs the question why doesnt the landowner just get general contractors to do the work and keep 100% of profit for himself?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Location
Lichfield
if the contractor is going to charge contracting rates up front to cover his costs it begs the question why doesnt the landowner just get general contractors to do the work and keep 100% of profit for himself?
Because a contractor who works at cost is not a very clever man is he .......... I suspect a good contractor would expect a margin / profit on his costs ! unless he really enjoys working for nothing

Because also they need management - which has both a cost and value, buying inputs and selling outputs planning and managing workload don't do themselves............... I certainly don't do that for free !
 

lloyd

Member
Location
Herefordshire
Selling outputs is not a precise science .
It involves an element of luck as well as judgment.
One thing is for certain if a percentage of wheat can
be displaced by cheap imported maize it will happen!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Location
Lichfield
Selling outputs is not a precise science .
It involves an element of luck as well as judgment.
One thing is for certain if a percentage of wheat can
be displaced by cheap imported maize it will happen!
no such thing as luck

Luck is preparation meeting opportunity !

You really do make your own luck, the more I learn the luckier I seem to get ..............
 

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