400 acres, 40 miles away.

[tjhooker]

What profit will you make in real terms from the CFA?

Broad question and depends on the agreement structure doesn’t it? That said, 400 acres in isolation as a 40 mile bolt on? Probably very little profit, of course. The interest it may show the OP is for it to be a stepping stone for further business expansion in the new area and build up a critical mass to operate from/around.

 

[ajd132]

Broad question and depends on the agreement structure doesn’t it? That said, 400 acres in isolation as a 40 mile bolt on? Probably very little profit, of course. The interest it may show the OP is for it to be a stepping stone for further business expansion in the new area and build up a critical mass to operate from/around.

I get that, I’m in a very similar situation in terms of farmed area and the majority of it is CFA and fbt. If it was me I totally get that taking it on speculatively could bring more opportunities in that area (could also be a complete waste of time), the worry is that 400 acres is going to take up so much more time being that distance away he could easily end up taking his eye off the ball in terms of his core acerage and end up upsetting those current customers. 40 miles is a hell of a long way in a tractor or car even. Also wearing out equipment. Imagine driving 40 miles to check if a certain prone field corner is being eaten by slugs? I’ve got no issue with distance for a much bigger block.
I think basing a massive business decision on that you might get some more land is ridiculous.
There’s a few very well respected farmers round here who have been contract farming longer than most who are giving up land and restructuring, some maybe 10 miles away some right nearby. I think these people are basing business decisions on figures and metrics not a need to be the the biggest farmer and have more and more land.

There is such a thing as deconomise of scale and see it time and time again.

As a 27 year old with a massive ego, a big quad track and branded clothig for staff even I can see that this mindset can be a road to nowhere.

 

[Bobthebuilder]

I would say it depends on the size of your kit and the staff available, block crop it so all operations are done at once, a couple of hours to take kit there and blitz it then back to your main land, we have 2 farms 20miles apart @1000ac arable between them (@650&@350) staff join up at busy times and work both places, cattle go between the 2 places, at times it could be a bit more efficient but works ok most of the time

 

[ajd132]

I would say it depends on the size of your kit and the staff available, block crop it so all operations are done at once, a couple of hours to take kit there and blitz it then back to your main land, we have 2 farms 20miles apart @1000ac arable between them (@650&@350) staff join up at busy times and work both places, cattle go between the 2 places, at times it could be a bit more efficient but works ok most of the time

It’s a CFA you can’t block crop it.

 

[Cowcorn]

Farming for shag all to build up the business i n the area??? So hopefully I you can get hold of more ground on the same terms ?? This type of carry on only leads to the dispersal auction due to" restructring the business " .l will make it easy for you if you cant pocket at least 25 grand a year clear and i mean clear leave it where it is. Why would you sell your self cheap ????

 

[tjhooker]

I get that, I’m in a very similar situation in terms of farmed area and the majority of it is CFA and fbt. If it was me I totally get that taking it on speculatively could bring more opportunities in that area (could also be a complete waste of time), the worry is that 400 acres is going to take up so much more time being that distance away he could easily end up taking his eye off the ball in terms of his core acerage and end up upsetting those current customers. 40 miles is a hell of a long way in a tractor or car even. Also wearing out equipment. Imagine driving 40 miles to check if a certain prone field corner is being eaten by slugs? I’ve got no issue with distance for a much bigger block.
I think basing a massive business decision on that you might get some more land is ridiculous.
There’s a few very well respected farmers round here who have been contract farming longer than most who are giving up land and restructuring, some maybe 10 miles away some right nearby. I think these people are basing business decisions on figures and metrics not a need to be the the biggest farmer and have more and more land.

There is such a thing as deconomise of scale and see it time and time again.

As a 27 year old with a massive ego, a big quad track and branded clothig for staff even I can see that this mindset can be a road to nowhere.

Haha - totally agree with all of your points. 400 acres 40 miles away as a speculative punt is a big ask on any CFA/FBT structured farming business, especially when you have 3000 acres elsewhere (like yourself and the OP) already maximising a combine / drill / sprayer. Family capital may well be better invested in enterprises outside agriculture thereafter. Anyhow, nice to speculate and talk around it

 

[ajd132]

Haha - totally agree with all of your points. 400 acres 40 miles away as a speculative punt is a big ask on any CFA/FBT structured farming business, especially when you have 3000 acres elsewhere (like yourself and the OP) already maximising a combine / drill / sprayer. Family capital may well be better invested in enterprises outside agriculture thereafter. Anyhow, nice to speculate and talk around it

It certainly is! We all love speculating and daydreaming about more acres and it’s very easy to get carried away trying to do the right thing and spread costs!

 

[lloyd]

Lexion 1000 coming to an area near you.

Are you sure some of you wouldn't want
competition coming to your area .

He is after all contemplating renting the ground
not buying it.

Reading the many on FF there will be
opportunities with the reduction of subsidies thus making it a perfect time for Lexion1000
to get his foot in the door on this new block.

There's no reason why he can't farm anywhere in the uk
aslong as it has sufficient grain storage capacity or commercial storage nearby.
One regular poster on here brings up how quick,efficient and profitable
his arable business is and he rents a lot of ground .

That said a good harvest is weather dependent so pick your expansion areas wisely .

 

[HarryB97]

4 miles down the road is bad enough let alone 40 miles. As it's your friends land as well i'd politley decline as it's more likley to end badly with the potential loss of a good friend as you wont be bale to farm it as well as the rest of your land. Even if you have older kit there all the time 40 miles it still an hour in a car. With brexit and loss of subs there's a high chance of more land becoming available locally in the distant future.

 

[ajd132]

Lexion 1000 coming to an area near you.

Are you sure some of you wouldn't want
competition coming to your area .

He is after all contemplating renting the ground
not buying it.

Reading the many on FF there will be
opportunities with the reduction of subsidies thus making it a perfect time for Lexion1000
to get his foot in the door on this new block.

There's no reason why he can't farm anywhere in the uk
aslong as it has sufficient grain storage capacity or commercial storage nearby.
One regular poster on here brings up how quick,efficient and profitable
his arable business is and he rents a lot of ground .

That said a good harvest is weather dependent so pick your expansion areas wisely .

We rent a lot of ground but it’s not 40 miles away!

 

[Hilly]

Low loader would make it do able but........ why bother.

 

[Lexion1000]

All very interesting, lots to think about in the replies so thank you. I could also add that I think there is a handyman type bloke down there who could do a few bits and pieces like loading grain and helping out now and again. Broadly I think the staffing and machinery could cope with it, with just a bit more part time help in the summer and autumn, especially if spraying and fert is contracted out. The other factor is that I do enjoy farming and I enjoy farming lots of acres ( does this make me a sad case?). I’m also not stupidly busy apart from during the critical bits of spring, summer and autumn so I do still seem to have plenty of time for family and holidays etc. It should be profitable too. I’m starting to lean towards doing it, very much on the fence though! The wife suggested to me last night that I’m mad. I’ll just need to wait and he see what he says, it’s only a suggestion at the moment, would I be interested is all he has said.

 

[lloyd]

All very interesting, lots to think about in the replies so thank you. I could also add that I think there is a handyman type bloke down there who could do a few bits and pieces like loading grain and helping out now and again. Broadly I think the staffing and machinery could cope with it, with just a bit more part time help in the summer and autumn, especially if spraying and fert is contracted out. The other factor is that I do enjoy farming and I enjoy farming lots of acres ( does this make me a sad case?). I’m also not stupidly busy apart from during the critical bits of spring, summer and autumn so I do still seem to have plenty of time for family and holidays etc. It should be profitable too. I’m starting to lean towards doing it, very much on the fence though! The wife suggested to me last night that I’m mad. I’ll just need to wait and he see what he says, it’s only a suggestion at the moment, would I be interested is all he has said.

Just buy her another horse

 

[ajd132]

All very interesting, lots to think about in the replies so thank you. I could also add that I think there is a handyman type bloke down there who could do a few bits and pieces like loading grain and helping out now and again. Broadly I think the staffing and machinery could cope with it, with just a bit more part time help in the summer and autumn, especially if spraying and fert is contracted out. The other factor is that I do enjoy farming and I enjoy farming lots of acres ( does this make me a sad case?). I’m also not stupidly busy apart from during the critical bits of spring, summer and autumn so I do still seem to have plenty of time for family and holidays etc. It should be profitable too. I’m starting to lean towards doing it, very much on the fence though! The wife suggested to me last night that I’m mad. I’ll just need to wait and he see what he says, it’s only a suggestion at the moment, would I be interested is all he has said.

Best of luck if you do decide to do it, can’t blame you really. Hopefully it won’t cause any problems for you’re current clients as it will take up a lot more time than I think you realise.

 

[Brisel]

The big risk is losing your economy of scale by adding another layer of labour, machinery and management on a small area. You’ll end up subsiding the new block with your efficient current one. If it were 1500ac it would merit more serious consideration IMO.

 

[ajd132]

The big risk is losing your economy of scale by adding another layer of labour, machinery and management on a small area. You’ll end up subsiding the new block with your efficient current one. If it were 1500ac it would merit more serious consideration IMO.

Spot on. 1500 acres I would go for.

 

[warksfarmer]

I have been offered 400 acres of good arable land 40 miles away. It’s in decent sized fields averaging about 22 acres and not too many awkward ones. It’s got ok grain storage with an ancient drier. There’s a couple of other barns too, nothing special. Think it is just being offered to me at the moment and I think I could probably get it on an ok deal. It’s about an hour to get to in a car.
My heart says go for it but my head says don’t. Is anyone else farming at this sort of distance? It’s in a different direction to anything else I farm. I would love to have a go at it but I just foresee lots of difficulties so I’m probably going to say no. Any thoughts from the tff collective?

As it’s a friend you could make this work because just have a very simple agreement of a 50:50 split of any subsidy and profits after all costs. That way it’ll be a moving beast. In good years you’ll both do well but in bad years you’ll both break even. It won’t work with anybody other than a good friend who has the condition of the land as a priority.

 

[Hereward]

There is such a thing as deconomise of scale and see it time and time again.

As a 27 year old with a massive ego, a big quad track and branded clothig for staff even I can see that this mindset can be a road to nowhere.

I'm not sure that's even a word?

The law of diminishing returns is what you're quite rightly thinking of.

 

[ajd132]

I'm not sure that's even a word?

The law of diminishing returns is what you're quite rightly thinking of.

Yes that’s what I meant.

 

[Clive]

I have been offered 400 acres of good arable land 40 miles away. It’s in decent sized fields averaging about 22 acres and not too many awkward ones. It’s got ok grain storage with an ancient drier. There’s a couple of other barns too, nothing special. Think it is just being offered to me at the moment and I think I could probably get it on an ok deal. It’s about an hour to get to in a car.
My heart says go for it but my head says don’t. Is anyone else farming at this sort of distance? It’s in a different direction to anything else I farm. I would love to have a go at it but I just foresee lots of difficulties so I’m probably going to say no. Any thoughts from the tff collective?

We don’t go that far but do have blocks of land at distance, its really not a problem if you set up logos is to suit, biggest issue of course being harvest. If there is grain storage there then it’s doable, if not I wouldn’t bother unless it was REALLY cheap