4m bays

[dontknowanything]

I know the standard for ag construction is 6m bays, but is it feasible to put up an industrial unit with 4m spacing between uprights?

 

[Clive]

why ? it would make it expensive surely ?

 

[dontknowanything]

why ? it would make it expensive surely ?

Want 4m bays inside, each with its own external roller door

 

[Clive]

sure its possible but will just cost proportionally more I guess

 

[dontknowanything]

sure its possible but will just cost proportionally more I guess

Yes, but I suppose you can use thinner steel which would offset the cost a bit

 

[BobGreen]

Buildings can be made to any bay sizes
Say 24m in 4 bays @ 6m or 6 bays @ 4 m there would be 2 more frames but as stated could possibly be lighter gauge would depend on structural calcs
Also more expense with foundations with smaller bays and more labour costs erecting steelwork
However the main cost is the roof sheets which is the same whatever the bay size

 

[dontknowanything]

Buildings can be made to any bay sizes
Say 24m in 4 bays @ 6m or 6 bays @ 4 m there would be 2 more frames but as stated could possibly be lighter gauge would depend on structural calcs
Also more expense with foundations with smaller bays and more labour costs erecting steelwork
However the main cost is the roof sheets which is the same whatever the bay size

Thanks.

Looking in more detail at what we need, I think we will have to have a mix of 4,5 and 6m bays.

 

[Tarw Coch]

I know the standard for ag construction is 6m bays, but is it feasible to put up an industrial unit with 4m spacing between uprights?

Very few farm buildings around here with 6m bays, 15ft would be most common although we have a lot at 16ft which is apparently quite common and a 5 at 12ft, the one being for a 12ft feed passage, the other 4 I don't know why a strange design going back before we bought the farm.
I thought 6m was more for industrial

 

[JP1]

I know the standard for ag construction is 6m bays, but is it feasible to put up an industrial unit with 4m spacing between uprights?

Yes. Capital Steel Buildings would calculate based on weight of steel per truss and use the cladding for inclusion in the wind loads. I've seen a few quite high eave buildings for special applications made like this.

There will be a franchise operator in your area but I cannot find them.

I found one covering Norfolk:

http://www.norfolksteelbuildings.co.uk

 

[MickMoor]

I have erected industrial buildings where just about every bay was different. You just have to make sure you get the correct purlins in their place. Provided it is drawn by a good draftsman, there shouldn't be any problem. I kept the site drawings for the most complicated steelwork I ever put together. As you can see, it was before CAD. Some sheets have more than one piece drawn on them.

 

[gusbs5502]

I know the standard for ag construction is 6m bays, but is it feasible to put up an industrial unit with 4m spacing between uprights?

Here is a brief run down on the economics of this..... Yes if you want to enclose a space say for small industial units for rental or to use as office space etc then at a 4 m bay with a standard floor slab and founds with a 50 year design life you will find that a cold formed steel frame delivers the goods. You can realise up to a 50% saving on the frame. I roughed out a scheme today that did just that. I can explain the economics and the pitfalls of this if you want... just ask.

For the traditional.... many of you will balk at this concept but what about the halfway house ?.... Consider this.. what about using steel purlins with a fibre cement roof on span up to ~18m ( 60' ish), Use tradtional hotrolled steel columns ( resistant to urine and enthusiastic offspring) but swap the rafters for cold rolled sections. If they ( offspiring, don't think cattle can compete at that height urine wise) are that keen it is only another six inches max before they puncture the roof ( P45).

This concept of the hybrid building has been around for a while but where it can hit the spot is where you want to consider buying the building as a kit. One reason that it went quite is due to competion between the hotrolled steel guys and the cold rolled steel guys as they felt it was in neithers interest to promote each others products.... ring any bells ?..... anyone for collabarative working?

There is a bit more labour cost in the hybrid due to the erection time but on the costings and structural design I have done the numbers fell as: 40k for a cold rolled, 43k for hibrid and 46k for a hot rolled. There are savings compared with the traditional hot rolled frame. It ticks the boxes in terms of having a robust column that is resistant to animal impact and durability but strips out the cost of all the welding in the eaves haunches etc that you find in a traditional hotrolled frame. As I say, there is more labour in the cf but if you are competant to do it yourself then it's worth thinking about.

One word of caution now is if you have a fire boundary condition as many local Authorities are wary of cold formed sections in fire.

If anyone is is interested the just ask.

 

[S J H]

Here is a brief run down on the economics of this..... Yes if you want to enclose a space say for small industial units for rental or to use as office space etc then at a 4 m bay with a standard floor slab and founds with a 50 year design life you will find that a cold formed steel frame delivers the goods. You can realise up to a 50% saving on the frame. I roughed out a scheme today that did just that. I can explain the economics and the pitfalls of this if you want... just ask.

For the traditional.... many of you will balk at this concept but what about the halfway house ?.... Consider this.. what about using steel purlins with a fibre cement roof on span up to ~18m ( 60' ish), Use tradtional hotrolled steel columns ( resistant to urine and enthusiastic offspring) but swap the rafters for cold rolled sections. If they ( offspiring, don't think cattle can compete at that height urine wise) are that keen it is only another six inches max before they puncture the roof ( P45).

This concept of the hybrid building has been around for a while but where it can hit the spot is where you want to consider buying the building as a kit. One reason that it went quite is due to competion between the hotrolled steel guys and the cold rolled steel guys as they felt it was in neithers interest to promote each others products.... ring any bells ?..... anyone for collabarative working?

There is a bit more labour cost in the hybrid due to the erection time but on the costings and structural design I have done the numbers fell as: 40k for a cold rolled, 43k for hibrid and 46k for a hot rolled. There are savings compared with the traditional hot rolled frame. It ticks the boxes in terms of having a robust column that is resistant to animal impact and durability but strips out the cost of all the welding in the eaves haunches etc that you find in a traditional hotrolled frame. As I say, there is more labour in the cf but if you are competant to do it yourself then it's worth thinking about.

One word of caution now is if you have a fire boundary condition as many local Authorities are wary of cold formed sections in fire.

If anyone is is interested the just ask.

It's not direct contact of the urine, but the atmosphere above the bedding is it not?

When I looked at them very briefly they didn't seem any cheaper. There would have to be a large saving for me to even consider them for a storage building.

 

[gusbs5502]

It's not direct contact of the urine, but the atmosphere above the bedding is it not?

When I looked at them very briefly they didn't seem any cheaper. There would have to be a large saving for me to even consider them for a storage building.

A bit of both really , so many different factors impact on the rate of corrosion.

One place to start is to look at what you want the building for. If you want a small, standard box, say 8-12m span workshop / garage that you can bolt down to a slab then you should be able to get a cold formed properly engineered frame at a good price compared to a hot rolled frame. Some people are happy to accept that they will not later use their cold formed building for eg a piggery or for storing aggressive chemicals etc They save the money or spend the saving on another higher spec building where cold formed steel is not suitable. Others want a fully flexible future proofed structure.

The required depth of the cold formed sections for this type of span range make a cold formed portal structure very cost effective when you consider the founds, steel, labour etc. provided you know what you can and can't use the building for.

It can be hard to weigh all this up and balance this against cost.... how big does a saving need to be before it becomes large ?

 

[dontknowanything]

My building is for light industrial use, I'm hoping there's not too much urine involved, although you can never be too certain

 

[JP1]

My building is for light industrial use, I'm hoping there's not too much urine involved, although you can never be too certain

Only when they extract it not paying the rent maybe

 

[dontknowanything]

Only when they extract it not paying the rent maybe

Hope not, they've been tenants since 1999

 

[RWG Contracts]

Here is a brief run down on the economics of this..... Yes if you want to enclose a space say for small industial units for rental or to use as office space etc then at a 4 m bay with a standard floor slab and founds with a 50 year design life you will find that a cold formed steel frame delivers the goods. You can realise up to a 50% saving on the frame. I roughed out a scheme today that did just that. I can explain the economics and the pitfalls of this if you want... just ask.

For the traditional.... many of you will balk at this concept but what about the halfway house ?.... Consider this.. what about using steel purlins with a fibre cement roof on span up to ~18m ( 60' ish), Use tradtional hotrolled steel columns ( resistant to urine and enthusiastic offspring) but swap the rafters for cold rolled sections. If they ( offspiring, don't think cattle can compete at that height urine wise) are that keen it is only another six inches max before they puncture the roof ( P45).

This concept of the hybrid building has been around for a while but where it can hit the spot is where you want to consider buying the building as a kit. One reason that it went quite is due to competion between the hotrolled steel guys and the cold rolled steel guys as they felt it was in neithers interest to promote each others products.... ring any bells ?..... anyone for collabarative working?

There is a bit more labour cost in the hybrid due to the erection time but on the costings and structural design I have done the numbers fell as: 40k for a cold rolled, 43k for hibrid and 46k for a hot rolled. There are savings compared with the traditional hot rolled frame. It ticks the boxes in terms of having a robust column that is resistant to animal impact and durability but strips out the cost of all the welding in the eaves haunches etc that you find in a traditional hotrolled frame. As I say, there is more labour in the cf but if you are competant to do it yourself then it's worth thinking about.

One word of caution now is if you have a fire boundary condition as many local Authorities are wary of cold formed sections in fire.

If anyone is is interested the just ask.

Cold rolled rafters are no good on a lifestock building. On a stock building you want hot rolled and timber purlins

 

[dannewhouse]

Hope not, they've been tenants since 1999

What about 8m bays? these shouldn't be a problem (or just doubles at whatever bays you want) they may work out cheaper or comparable to small bays (4m) but if you ever change your mind.
if you have big bays you could divide the "big" bays with a bolt in post or lift out whatever fits to your job.

as an engineer we are always told to design as bigger bays as possible for future changes so there aren't many stations in the way

 

[dontknowanything]

What about 8m bays? these shouldn't be a problem (or just doubles at whatever bays you want) they may work out cheaper or comparable to small bays (4m) but if you ever change your mind.
if you have big bays you could divide the "big" bays with a bolt in post or lift out whatever fits to your job.

as an engineer we are always told to design as bigger bays as possible for future changes so there aren't many stations in the way

Yes, two 8m bays would work, that hadn't occurred to me