A Bloody Good War Would Sort Them Out

[Bootneck]

Well I am a farmer and ex Royal Marine, and whilst it was not WW2, Sangin in Helmand, Afghanistan in 2008 was a pretty horrendous place to serve. And having served my time there and in other places I have no hesitation in saying that a lot of these gang members, gobshites and general wastes of space that inhabit this island could do with a dose of the discipline, self control, self respect that military service brings.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Well I am a farmer and ex Royal Marine, and whilst it was not WW2, Sangin in Helmand, Afghanistan in 2008 was a pretty horrendous place to serve. And having served my time there and in other places I have no hesitation in saying that a lot of these gang members, gobshites and general wastes of space that inhabit this island could do with a dose of the discipline, self control, self respect that military service brings.

FOB Gibraltar was beautiful in the summer. I'm guessing it left a lot to be desired in the winter?

 

[beefandsleep]

Whilst I agree with most of what you've written, I can't agree with this part. If the younger generation needs discipline then home is the place to instil it. Our teachers should educate their pupils, not parent them.

You are right 100% but how do we break the cycle of parents who don't give a monkeys? The only way you can instil ethics and self discipline in those young people is to get them when they're young and malleable, not wait until they are delinquent young adults and expect the army to beat it out of them.

 

[Bootneck]

FOB Gibraltar was beautiful in the summer. I'm guessing it left a lot to be desired in the winter?

FOB Gibraltar was beautiful in the summer. I'm guessing it left a lot to be desired in the winter?

Wasn't based in Gib, was in the DC, but yes, the mud in winter was almost as bad as the Sussex Wealden clay that I have to contend with now!

 

[Bootneck]

Wasn't based in Gib, was in the DC, but yes, the mud in winter was almost as bad as the Sussex Wealden clay that I have to contend with now!

You were out there then?

 

[Dr. Alkathene]

Crikey what have I started?

 

[unlacedgecko]

You were out there then?

Herrick 8. Mainly in 16 Bde HQ, but did a week or so at FOB Gib as a liaison officer with C Coy 2 PARA.

Rus Archer (won an MC for his work with the OMLT) got a stand up fail on my Phone Coy.

 

[Bootneck]

Herrick 8. Mainly in 16 Bde HQ, but did a week or so at FOB Gib as a liaison officer with C Coy 2 PARA.

Rus Archer (won an MC for his work with the OMLT) got a stand up fail on my Phone Coy.

I was Herrick 7, B coy 40 Cdo.

 

[unlacedgecko]

I was Herrick 7, B coy 40 Cdo.

Do you know Kane Holford?

 

[ollie989898]

Well I am a farmer and ex Royal Marine, and whilst it was not WW2, Sangin in Helmand, Afghanistan in 2008 was a pretty horrendous place to serve. And having served my time there and in other places I have no hesitation in saying that a lot of these gang members, gobshites and general wastes of space that inhabit this island could do with a dose of the discipline, self control, self respect that military service brings.

The Marines have no place for a collection of half wits, particularly those who generally cannot be assed with life.

 

[unlacedgecko]

The Marines have no place for a collection of half wits, particularly those who generally cannot be assed with life.

Neither does the RLC, but still many can be found there. Especially in the driver trade...

 

[ollie989898]

Neither does the RLC, but still many can be found there. Especially in the driver trade...

Volunteers needed to drive large and particularly slow moving targets, basic pay and hours excellent.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Volunteers needed to drive large and particularly slow moving targets, basic pay and hours excellent.

The resupply convoys were so well protected by Attack Helicopters, Fast Air and their own integral force protection that no one bothered to engage them directly. IEDs were the main threat.

Int he middle of the desert a vehicle in the middle of the convoy strayed outside the wheeling (tramlines) of the one in front by 6 inches, triggering an IED. The 19 year old top gunner was blown clear, but relatively uninjured. The 23 year old driver broken both his legs and was stuck in the burning vehicle.

The top gunner went into the wreckage and sustained 3rd degree burns to his arms and legs dragging his mate clear.

One of the force protection gunners was blown up 4 times, including once when he went 40ft from the vehicle.

I couldn't be more proud of the lads above and others like them.

Similarly I had nothing but absolute distain and contempt for the war dodging malingerers and passport soldiers who some how had a back injury when prevented them from joining every exercise or operation, but miraculously cleared up enough for them to enjoy sport or adventure training.

And there was more than enough of the latter, even in an all volunteer force. Conscription would only exacerbate the situation.

 

[ollie989898]

The resupply convoys were so well protected by Attack Helicopters, Fast Air and their own integral force protection that no one bothered to engage them directly. IEDs were the main threat.

Int he middle of the desert a vehicle in the middle of the convoy strayed outside the wheeling (tramlines) of the one in front by 6 inches, triggering an IED. The 19 year old top gunner was blown clear, but relatively uninjured. The 23 year old driver broken both his legs and was stuck in the burning vehicle.

The top gunner went into the wreckage and sustained 3rd degree burns to his arms and legs dragging his mate clear.

One of the force protection gunners was blown up 4 times, including once when he went 40ft from the vehicle.

I couldn't be more proud of the lads above and others like them.

Similarly I had nothing but absolute distain and contempt for the war dodging malingerers and passport soldiers who some how had a back injury when prevented them from joining every exercise or operation, but miraculously cleared up enough for them to enjoy sport or adventure training.

And there was more than enough of the latter, even in an all volunteer force. Conscription would only exacerbate the situation.

Didn't happen in Iraq quite like that every time.

Conscription is counter-productive. People who don't want to be in the military, much less a war-zone are of no use to anyone.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Didn't happen in Iraq quite like that every time.

Never went. My mate described it as "hot and smells of shite".

Lack of protected mobility, especially in the early years, was criminal. We had a field trip to study EFPs at one point. F ck going anywhere in a Snatch!

 

[ollie989898]

Never went. My mate described it as "hot and smells of shite".

Lack of protected mobility, especially in the early years, was criminal. We had a field trip to study EFPs at one point. F ck going anywhere in a Snatch!

The EFPs were nasty, the pictures I have seen, from what is virtually a home-made device, were scary. One blew a hole clean through both sides of an AMTRAAC, fortunately the marines were dismounted at the time.

Those Land rovers had no business being anywhere near the place. I can only assume it was largely political, and that no one realised how hostile the place would become at the time the decisions were made.

Of Iraq, the select few I have spoken to, basically had a whale of a time, their words, not mine.

 

[unlacedgecko]

The EFPs were nasty, the pictures I have seen, from what is virtually a home-made device, were scary. One blew a hole clean through both sides of an AMTRAAC, fortunately the marines were dismounted at the time.

Those Land rovers had no business being anywhere near the place. I can only assume it was largely political, and that no one realised how hostile the place would become at the time the decisions were made.

Of Iraq, the select few I have spoken to, basically had a whale of a time, their words, not mine.

EFPs (and the spider devices to control them and other IEDs) we're manufactured en mass in Iran by the IRG and smuggled over the border.

During the Israeli invasion of Lebanon EFPs were penetrating MBT front armour at 100m+. Some were found with brackets on for telescopic scopes.

Deployment of Snatch was due to the issues you mention, and a lack of any viable alternative at the time.

 

[Cowabunga]

Well, if it isn't wars, it will be plagues.

Did I hear right (R4)? The population of India is due to double by 2050? I am with David Attenborough. The problem is not climate change or global warming or any of that ilk, but the population explosion. Nature has ways of dealing with such problems.

Is that true, bloody hell where will they all fit.. I lived in India and the population density in rural areas is crazy let alone in the cities. I believe India has a population density over 1,000 per sq KM, which is nuts considering China I believe is less than 400.....

They'll drown under their own sh!t before then. Almost literally.

 

[Walterp]

Just imagine what the fall out will be if any of these unwilling, uninterested folk start dying in Afghanistan, Iraq, or wherever the next war will be.
No, if national service is required to bring the youth of today in to line, then have them, collecting bins, sweeping streets, or even better learning a useful trade such as building or engineering rather than food service or the ubiquitous barista!

I suppose you already know this, but it's worth reminding everyone that the conflicts the British Army fought after 1945 were largely with conscript soldiers under National Service.

There was (as far as I know) little or no distinction between conscript and regular, so that they were equally likely to be (and were, in fact) wounded or killed.

 

[Walterp]

I believe you have to be in your 90s now to have served in ww2

Yes, very few nowadays.

When I was living in a town and in practice I would meet quite a few. I enjoyed learning about the Forgotten Army from a friend who was there ("no leave in 5 years, but endless mosquitoes") and what it was like being a tail-gunner in a Lancaster bomber ("you just got on with it") as well, of course, talking with the widows of those killed at sea, at Arnhem, or in Normandy.

One bloke had a kip on the dunes on one of the landing beaches on D Day +? and the officer overlooked him, so that the lorry started up and drove over him, killing him. The officer wrote to the widow to try to explain, which was not easily forgotten.

My point is that surprisingly few farmers served in WWII. That is why no one ever mentions it in farming circles, even though (as you correctly point out) there ought to be a few aged survivors out there.