A blueprint for a profitable suckler herd.

[Nearly]

keep a micro herd....spend more time direct selling the meat than rearing
or
get a job and have a few as a hobby
or (based on whats been said)
find somewhere where grass grows year round...yet ground remains dry enough to outwinter......good luck with finding that in uk

300 or 30 then?

 

[Henarar]

Agreed on the health. Then try finding them

Sell My Livestock or at the market. Many good potential prospects “No health status” . It’s expensive and takes some effort and therefore hardly anyone does it

Then folks moan if a health plan reviewed by your vet is on your Red Tractor check list

just because a farm has no official health plan does not mean that there is no health plain, there is such a thing as doing things yourself you know, same goes for fecking RT

 

[tinsheet]

this is why we have good old fashioned British Blues

Shorthorns you mean

 

[tinsheet]

Google Robert Parker Nuffield scholar, very good report on the profitable suckler cow.

 

[JP1]

just because a farm has no official health plan does not mean that there is no health plain, there is such a thing as doing things yourself you know, same goes for fecking RT

Tell me how that works then?

You blood test randomly. Keep records. Test and quarantine all incoming animals. Calculate your own Johnnes scoring ?

 

[Henarar]

Tell me how that works then?

You blood test randomly. Keep records. Test and quarantine all incoming animals. Calculate your own Johnnes scoring ?

How what works, I just stated a fact thats all

 

[S J H]

Agreed on the health. Then try finding them

Sell My Livestock or at the market. Many good potential prospects “No health status” . It’s expensive and takes some effort and therefore hardly anyone does it

Then folks moan if a health plan reviewed by your vet is on your Red Tractor check list

health schemes are far too expensive imo @JP1 no one knew what johne s or Ibr was years ago,

The trouble with people pushing them, is they'll become the norm like red tractor and we won't be able to sell without them. Then costs really would rise.

 

[Henarar]

Shorthorns you mean

Yep shorthorn descend a good old fashioned British breed

 

[gone up the hill]

Shorthorns you mean

 

[JP1]

How what works, I just stated a fact thats all

You said. "just because a farm has no official health plan does not mean that there is no health plain, "

As you consign breeding stock I'm really interested in how you / one does this so I can choose 1) if I think it has merits 2) I'd rate it high enough to buy stock

 

[gone up the hill]

Tell me how that works then?

You blood test randomly. Keep records. Test and quarantine all incoming animals. Calculate your own Johnnes scoring ?

RT health plans aren't worth the paper they are written on.

And the trouble with things that you have to do is they start off cheap and they then keep adding to them and before long its costing you a small fortune to do these things so every £1 you save by outwintering your cow for longer you end up being forced to spend £10 extra on some worthless health plan instead!

Going forwards the only way we can compete is too cut out all this unneeded and worthless red tape.

EID tags is another example, we are going to be forced to use them in cattle yet in the states for example they cant even track a beasts history back to the state it was born in let alone how many movements its had or what farm it was born on!

 

[gone up the hill]

300 or 30 then?

Will be a lot of work for one person to look after 300 suckler cows all year around because you will be looking after 600+ cattle single handed and most jobs like moving a large herd of cows across a road/ TB testing every 60 days/ calvin problems/ drenching/tagging etc etc need at least 2 people to allow the job to be carried out safely and quickly.

 

[JP1]

health schemes are far too expensive imo @JP1 no one knew what johne s or Ibr was years ago,

The trouble with people pushing them, is they'll become the norm like red tractor and we won't be able to sell without them. Then costs really would rise.

Yes I'm actually agreeing with you and @henraar

If you add the invoiced cost let alone the labour and on farm costs of annual testing it is massive for a small herd (32 cows) like mine.

And that's before you get to Breed Societies. Up until recently I had to be a member of 3 Galloway breed societies to register calves from the 4 Galloway breeds (White, Riggit, Belted and solid (Black/Red/Dun). Bull inspection costs, DNA tests etc

If you add up the costs and divide by number of calves it's a tidy sum and you're hooked in.

Ironically my best Belt heifer is out of a purebred but un-registered cow so I can never grade her up.

AND DEFRA and their secretive genetic committee STILL claim that an EU rule means my Riggits are de-classified from the Breeds At Risk Register (the marginal cull appeal mechanism) despite my Riggits being THE regional type 200 years ago AND the genes surviving in pedigree White Galloway cattle all along . DEFRA two years ago could have put the breed BACK on to the online breed listing in a noanosecond even if it was an interim listing but no they do it their galcial way. I think I've now counted over 11 officials (including one farmer representative) I've spoken to (I say spoken to because they all hide) . One swamp I'm keen to help drain

 

[Woolless]

I've done a little research on this as thinking of putting a few sucklers on. To me, the two key periods are the three months following calving and winter. An easy calving results in live calf and a cow which will go back in calf easily, ready to pop another calf out 365 or less days later.

Winter expense minimised by a moderate sized hardy cow which will outwinter or need housed for a minimal period and doesn't need a huge pile of feed. Breeds which can build up and mobilise backfat ideal. The cow should only need grass/fodder.

 

[onthehoof]

Producing what the market wants not what you want is a start.
Then do it as cheap as you can.

 

[JP1]

RT health plans aren't worth the paper they are written on.

And the trouble with things that you have to do is they start off cheap and they then keep adding to them and before long its costing you a small fortune to do these things so every £1 you save by outwintering your cow for longer you end up being forced to spend £10 extra on some worthless health plan instead!

Going forwards the only way we can compete is too cut out all this unneeded and worthless red tape.

EID tags is another example, we are going to be forced to use them in cattle yet in the states for example they cant even track a beasts history back to the state it was born in let alone how many movements its had or what farm it was born on!

Right with you BUT the Scots are much more pro-active on BVD.

So in the great white heat of self improvement in Devon, what am I missing in terms of self-managed herd health?

 

[gone up the hill]

I've done a little research on this as thinking of putting a few sucklers on. To me, the two key periods are the three months following calving and winter. An easy calving results in live calf and a cow which will go back in calf easily, ready to pop another calf out 365 or less days later.

Winter expense minimised by a moderate sized hardy cow which will outwinter or need housed for a minimal period and doesn't need a huge pile of feed. Breeds which can build up and mobilise backfat ideal. The cow should only need grass/fodder.

Key is to find a system that works for your farm, not try and run a system that is totally unsuitable for your land conditions, take out wintering, if you have a beach or some fields that are sand under the grass then outwintering will work but if you have heavy clay/red soil etc for example then its a non starter and the cattle need housing!

 

[gone up the hill]

Right with you BUT the Scots are much more pro-active on BVD.

So in the great white heat of self improvement in Devon, what am I missing in terms of self-managed herd health?

Yea I agree about the Scots and BVD, thing is you don't need an expensive on farm health plan as an industry to tackle a problem like this like the Scots are doing!

 

[puppet]

All you really need are lighter animals in the wetter parts of the year, much more frequent movements, and raise their stocking density so they maintain their own pasture properly.

Back to basics - what did cattle actually do before we came along?
They walked, and they grazed.... mimic that almost constant movement of a herd at work and you soon have an easy job.
Park them up, and it's an expensive and laborious one!

We have out-wintered but now try to avoid it even on our shallow soils. Even at 1 cow/acre left out 3 weeks extra can knacker a field for the following spring. Oh, the other thing is there is no grass so by November at the latest we are hauling straw or silage to them in rain and a sea of mud from pits which are only 30 yards from the cosy shed they should be in so not any less labour and the neighbours have a trail of mud on the road.
The moving and grazing works in summer but November to April they would just die outside

 

[JP1]

So no answer from either of you then

I'm down in Sussex for the Riggit Galloway Summer Jamboree and we are visiting a pedigree Sussex herd. I am interested in this breed too.

I will ask their herd Manager if / how they manage their herd health