A blueprint for a profitable suckler herd.

[tinsheet]

do they have shows in other countries ?

Oh yes for sure, to quote a well known Angus breeder in the state's for got his name , after winning some show he quoted my cattle are bred for breeding not for showing, how many would say that over here?

 

[Chae1]

Still no answer.

I do believe herd fertility and health is a hidden and important factor.

I only have a handful of cows so my "fixed" costs for the health scheme are even higher per head. I am hoping a bigger cow keeper like @Chae1 would come along and say something along the lines of: "300 cows and we went down the random blood and dung sampling route and after 5 years in a closed herd we are nearly where we would have been on the SAC Premium scheme but at a fraction of the costs, the one exception being Johnnes " or whatever

@Henarar and @gone up the hill have gone quiet

Don't think we're making a lot of money, be interesting to see 2018/19 accounts.

Cheaper straw and barley prices will make things look better this year.

Brexits fudged the whole job up at moment. Don't have much positive to say about keeping suckler cows. Hopefully its just short term. Not going to make any big changes at moment. Will see what happens 2020 when the dusts settled.

 

[Treg]

are you going to give us some tips ?

Wow well done @digger64,I mentioned on another thread that I was getting 415p/kg & I think only @Kiwi Pete asked why? So shows most are happy with their price! Go for the premium sales. I'm Organic & I'm getting nearly £1 over base , for those who don't want to go Organic there's AA scheme & Beef Shorthorn scheme which are both 30p/ kg ish over base .

 

[Werzle]

Wow well done @digger64,I mentioned on another thread that I was getting 415p/kg & I think only @Kiwi Pete asked why? So shows most are happy with their price! Go for the premium sales. I'm Organic & I'm getting nearly £1 over base , for those who don't want to go Organic there's AA scheme & Beef Shorthorn scheme which are both 30p/ kg ish over base .

Trouble is if we all moved over to these schemes the price you are getting now would drop like a stone. Fair play though.

 

[tinsheet]

Wow well done @digger64,I mentioned on another thread that I was getting 415p/kg & I think only @Kiwi Pete asked why? So shows most are happy with their price! Go for the premium sales. I'm Organic & I'm getting nearly £1 over base , for those who don't want to go Organic there's AA scheme & Beef Shorthorn scheme which are both 30p/ kg ish over base .

SSshh,

 

[Treg]

Trouble is if we all moved over to these schemes the price you are getting now would drop like a stone. Fair play though.

Yes that's true.

 

[Treg]

SSshh,

Yeah I know but I get fed up with hearing all the doom & gloom on here & think by being positive & just saying there are different schemes it mite give someone some hope

 

[tinsheet]

Yeah I know but I get fed up with hearing all the doom & gloom on here & think by being positive & just saying there are different schemes it mite give someone some hope

Stick to the holistic thread, it's safer

 

[beef 1]

Easy answer here is tell the cows two calves a year or else , don't pay any wages and do all the work yourself , for ***** nuts/

 

[texas pete]

I don't think they are fixed, once you see them as fixed you think there is nothing to be done but there is

Best to think of them as Direct and Indirect costs, IMO.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Calving them earlier and not feeding them too much grub keeps them a smaller cow. Still pop the calves out which are worth just as much. You just have to have your eye on the ball a little better is all.

Not sure about this. I've seen plenty of big lumps of cows that have been calved down at two. They still grow on to their genetic potential. You won't stop Nature.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Some of the best genetics for natives have to now be imported from abroad, due to show ring breeding

And I wonder what kind of herds they come from?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Yeah I know but I get fed up with hearing all the doom & gloom on here & think by being positive & just saying there are different schemes it mite give someone some hope

Most of the gloom merchants are still farming the way they like to farm, not the way they have to farm.
Or farming for things that DO NOT EXIST any longer, cheap fuel that is no longer cheap - or cheap labour, which they become....

Yields and prices aren't as relevant as ensuring that you produce under that figure by a good margin - do you think the Argentinians are waiting for £3.50/kg or just cracking on?
£2.40 is a dream figure for most in the beef world, down here.

Hence "we've already cut costs" holds very little water, while still spending money like a Labour gov't - money is dangerous in the wrong hands.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Easy answer here is tell the cows two calves a year or else , don't pay any wages and do all the work yourself , for ***** nuts/

I often wonder why more work isn't done with cattle twinning genetics.

 

[Sir loin]

Thanks for all your replies, a little more about my herd I was brought up on the saying" it costs as much to feed a gud un as it does a bad un" so I try to breed the best quality that I can. I tried calving at two years old with not good results but with some good AI I' am about to give it another go but only after my vet doing pelvic measurements. I AI' d a batch of cows to South Devon as an experiment and retained 3 heifers. now 3rd calvers the calves that I wean off them are consistently between 70 to 80 kg heavier at weaning than the pure lims due to milk and hybrid vigour quality lacking but go to market at 13 months not 15 for the lims so 2 months feed saving. I am exploring the use of sexed saler semen(krypton from Cogent) to breed heifer replacements. I will use the limousin herd as my base line with good health as I move away from pure bred cattle. No way can I outwinter my cattle but I do have a John Deere Tractor not a Kubota mine is a P reg 6400!!!! Contractors do all my field work.

 

[gone up the hill]

Thanks for all your replies, a little more about my herd I was brought up on the saying" it costs as much to feed a gud un as it does a bad un" so I try to breed the best quality that I can. I tried calving at two years old with not good results but with some good AI I' am about to give it another go but only after my vet doing pelvic measurements. I AI' d a batch of cows to South Devon as an experiment and retained 3 heifers. now 3rd calvers the calves that I wean off them are consistently between 70 to 80 kg heavier at weaning than the pure lims due to milk and hybrid vigour quality lacking but go to market at 13 months not 15 for the lims so 2 months feed saving. I am exploring the use of sexed saler semen(krypton from Cogent) to breed heifer replacements. I will use the limousin herd as my base line with good health as I move away from pure bred cattle. No way can I outwinter my cattle but I do have a John Deere Tractor not a Kubota mine is a P reg 6400!!!! Contractors do all my field work.

For starters AI and paying the vet to do pelvic measuring is two costs that a suckler cow cannot afford to support!

 

[gone up the hill]

the insurance on the Kubota will be less if its worth less
older tractors/machinery tend not to depreciate as much if at all

Insurance may be £50 quid less a year on that Kubota, trouble is you will burn £100 extra a year v a JD on the Kubota just running it at standstill every few hours to sort out the emissions....

And older machinery is fine but will normally have more breakdowns and thus higher repair costs than a new machine..

Trouble is what happens when you are running 50 year old tractors as your main tractor and the cows are still not paying?? next step is going back to a horse and cart.....................

Farming must be the only industry where people try and convince themselves they should receive poor prices that don't cover COP costs let alone leave a profit!!...........

 

[Sir loin]

For starters AI and paying the vet to do pelvic measuring is two costs that a suckler cow cannot afford to support!

I don't agree, firstly, closed herd so only way to get better genetics in and get fast genetic gain is by AI'ing heifers last year all 7 heifers held first time, I rarely do cows. By pelvic measuring it gives me the confidence that reduced veterinary costs will not be incurred later on.

 

[gone up the hill]

I don't agree, firstly, closed herd so only way to get better genetics in and get fast genetic gain is by AI'ing heifers last year all 7 heifers held first time, I rarely do cows. By pelvic measuring it gives me the confidence that reduced veterinary costs will not be incurred later on.

Sorry but commercial suckler farming cannot afford costs like pelvic measuring.

You need to weigh the heifers and bull them at 400/450 kilos instead.

By all means have loaded costs like pelvic measuring but you will struggle to make commercial suckler cows pay if you do!

And to avoid calving probs with heifers put them onto a native bred like Hereford for the first calving!

 

[digger64]

I often wonder why more work isn't done with cattle twinning genetics.

freemartins retaining heifers from twins isn't straight forward like sheep