which would you have as your main tractor ?
brand new Kubota +loader 5 year warranty 30 hp more low rate finance , or 5 year old john deere+loader no warranty been on intensive livestock unit no subsidized finance - both the same approx. price ?
A blueprint for a profitable suckler herd.
- Thread starter Sir loin
- Start date
brand new Kubota +loader 5 year warranty 30 hp more low rate finance , or 5 year old john deere+loader no warranty been on intensive livestock unit no subsidized finance - both the same approx. price ?
how much is pelvic measureing approx. ?
- Location
- Fife
Yes I'm aware of freemartins. But what is the average replacement rate of a suckler herd? It would be a lot lower than a sheep flock I'd expect.
So even if only 25% of twins were heifer heifer that would still give enough females to choose replacements from yes?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Depends largely on cow longevity characterisitics, and feeding.
The main reason farms need to replace their cows so often is because the whole caboodle is jacked up on Nitrogen and high-protein diets, whether we're talking dairy or beef.
All this excess ammonia builds up in the tissues and ultimately causes premature death/lack of performance leading to culling, another shining example of "pushing the envelope" going a little OTT - more relaxed farms only need these higher replacement rates to accelerate genetic improvement.
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Ok shoot me down, just an idea at the moment so go easy.
We are a dry farm in a dry area so summer grazing limited/poor, but access to cheap straw, currently spring calving mainly Simmy X cows,no creep, wean October, calves stored on hay and a little concentrate, grazed following summer, outwintered then sold off grass third summer, cows wintered on straw then hay.
Advantages very low cost, disadvantages cattle hanging around a long time and some difficult to finish but they do make a profit.
Thinking of trying calving September Limmy X cows, feed cows silage creep calves from 1 month, wean April, Chuck cows out on poorest grazing for Summer, finish Bulls at 12 month and heifers 15 month before 2nd winter.
Advantages keep more cows, if you can call that an advantage!, better grades, better p/kg, more efficient.
Disadvantages higher cost, will they be more profitable??
We are a dry farm in a dry area so summer grazing limited/poor, but access to cheap straw, currently spring calving mainly Simmy X cows,no creep, wean October, calves stored on hay and a little concentrate, grazed following summer, outwintered then sold off grass third summer, cows wintered on straw then hay.
Advantages very low cost, disadvantages cattle hanging around a long time and some difficult to finish but they do make a profit.
Thinking of trying calving September Limmy X cows, feed cows silage creep calves from 1 month, wean April, Chuck cows out on poorest grazing for Summer, finish Bulls at 12 month and heifers 15 month before 2nd winter.
Advantages keep more cows, if you can call that an advantage!, better grades, better p/kg, more efficient.
Disadvantages higher cost, will they be more profitable??
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Have to disagree. It depends where you start from. If you have a high assisted rate then pelvic measuring does pay. Saves Caesar and dead calf. Your right that bull plays a fact but cut out plenty of herefords as well!
I Ai everything here much cheaper than having a bull .
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Issue normally is that these cows struggle to get back in calf in a tight block and slip. Sure there will be a few but if you want to get to 9 weeks then you will really struggle
Variable costs are the deckchairs.
Fixed costs are the Titanic.
The AHDB rightly get a lot of criticism, but one useful thing they do is the annual costings booklet. Use that as a basis for putting true fixed costs on a suckler business, notably salary, rent, depreciation.
Why do people ignore their fixed costs ? Because the BPS allows them to do so.
Page 6 of this thread and no-one has yet asked whether taxpayer support is part of a blueprint for a profitable suckler herd. Without structural change in the marketplace (principally on market share and import rules) then it is.
Fixed costs are the Titanic.
The AHDB rightly get a lot of criticism, but one useful thing they do is the annual costings booklet. Use that as a basis for putting true fixed costs on a suckler business, notably salary, rent, depreciation.
Why do people ignore their fixed costs ? Because the BPS allows them to do so.
Page 6 of this thread and no-one has yet asked whether taxpayer support is part of a blueprint for a profitable suckler herd. Without structural change in the marketplace (principally on market share and import rules) then it is.
it depends on the machine I have run new and old, for some machines I use a scrap it policy, when it breaks scrap it and buy another when you see one, old crap like that don't cost much to run, some stuff I buy new though, tractors tend to be good or bad weather they are new or old, find a good one and hang on to it
and you are the one trying to convince everyone else that I should get a poor price for my suckler calves every time you put on the price tracker thread that store prices are unsustainable given the price of fat cattle, just remember that why don't you pick on one of your other input prices, try telling your feed man or your fert man or whoever you buy your fuel and the rest of your inputs from that their prices are unsustainable that should keep you busy for the morning
they are all inputs for a beef fattening enterprise so why consistently pick on the one where the producer is probably making the lest profit ? reduce some of your other input prices and feck your john dear
- Location
- Ardrossan Ayrshire
Henarar, you are wrong. What @gone up the hill should do, along with all the other "suckled calfs are too dear" finishers is put a breeding herd on and show us how its done. But he won't, just like all the others.it depends on the machine I have run new and old, for some machines I use a scrap it policy, when it breaks scrap it and buy another when you see one, old crap like that don't cost much to run, some stuff I buy new though, tractors tend to be good or bad weather they are new or old, find a good one and hang on to it
and you are the one trying to convince everyone else that I should get a poor price for my suckler calves every time you put on the price tracker thread that store prices are unsustainable given the price of fat cattle, just remember that why don't you pick on one of your other input prices, try telling your feed man or your fert man or whoever you buy your fuel and the rest of your inputs from that their prices are unsustainable that should keep you busy for the morning
they are all inputs for a beef fattening enterprise so why consistently pick on the one where the producer is probably making the lest profit ? reduce some of your other input prices and feck your john dear
he has got some suckler cows
and I was partly having a laughmy point being its always farmers produce that is to expensive we are just the same with straw from arable farmers, way to much money apparently
farmers are an easy target even for other farmers
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
And the stiffest competition of all is the chap who will do it for free - how do you beat that?he has got some suckler cows
my point being its always farmers produce that is to expensive we are just the same with straw from arable farmers, way to much money apparently
farmers are an easy target even for other farmers
You got a good guffaw or three out of me, anyway.... some pretty good points there all the same, we do need to ask the big questions of ourselves and others IMO.
Reducing input costs can be done, as you suggest - just buy less, but make them work harder for you!
Tractors and fuel being the main ones if we're talking cattle, I know we have a mild climate but we're around about the half-gallon per head of cattle, for the year.
As you say so well, don't spend what you haven't yet made
- Location
- Ardrossan Ayrshire
Ooops! Sorry @gone up the hill, didn't realise that you had sucklers. Thanks for setting me straight Henerar.he has got some suckler cows
my point being its always farmers produce that is to expensive we are just the same with straw from arable farmers, way to much money apparently
farmers are an easy target even for other farmers
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Used to have a lot of sucklers but TB put a stop to that!
Compo for a TB cow just gone is £766 that Month, complete waste of time!
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
it depends on the machine I have run new and old, for some machines I use a scrap it policy, when it breaks scrap it and buy another when you see one, old crap like that don't cost much to run, some stuff I buy new though, tractors tend to be good or bad weather they are new or old, find a good one and hang on to it
and you are the one trying to convince everyone else that I should get a poor price for my suckler calves every time you put on the price tracker thread that store prices are unsustainable given the price of fat cattle, just remember that why don't you pick on one of your other input prices, try telling your feed man or your fert man or whoever you buy your fuel and the rest of your inputs from that their prices are unsustainable that should keep you busy for the morning
they are all inputs for a beef fattening enterprise so why consistently pick on the one where the producer is probably making the lest profit ? reduce some of your other input prices and feck your john dear
Im sure your aware that I have made clear many times on here that neither is the current prime AND STORE cattle price as they stand is sustainable for anyone for very long!
I totally agree about the other inputs but I cannot see them coming down much if anything regardless of no subs/ poor cattle prices etc, sooner or later something will have to give as having 1990 cattle prices but 2019 input prices doesn't stack up for any system be that intensive or extensive!
On the tractor issue, my point is/was that it doesn't matter what brand of tractor/ machinery you run at some point they will need repairing/ replacing if you use them regardless of the beef price but there needs to be a profit in the job regardless of if you buy new/used kit to be able to do this.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
On the Organic prices, they are currently much better than conventional cattle but that is due to the supply/ratio, if we all went organic then you would soon see the organic price tumbling downwards.
harperfarmer
Member
What a complete load of rubbish. Do you ever read back what you post!? It's actually laughable some of the so called "advice" that you dish out on here. You genuinely believe that the financial make or break for a suckler herd is pelvic measuring!? And you also believe that simply by bulling Heifers at certain weights will avoid the issues caused by the few odd heifers with very small pelvises!? Some Heifers are never going to breed well due to pelvic size regardless of their weight when bulled. So instead of paying a small fee to have them measured, you'd take the risk of having a ceasarian/dead calf and/or heifer and the much larger cost associated with that!? Out of interest how many suckler cows do you run!?
I think out of 7 sets of twins last year 1 set (2xheifers) from 112 calving cows so would have been a start, but the mother was the last to calve this year by a long way so struggled but it was very dry harsh conditions . So not necessarily more profitable overtime perhaps , but nice to improve the herd average figs for fertility /calving % .
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
A barsteward of a situation - I think that's why Clive and Chris gave us an unlike button, tb
If you want back in, I can find you any number of incalf hereford or angus cows, going for £440 here, but I may have to let you sort the shipping....