A conspiracy to ban meat?

[milkloss]

The Mrs isn’t too bright at the minute so I’ve been hanging around hospitals while she has tests etc all over the country. Not too serious and a long term problem we’re finally trying to get on top of but I can’t get any work done and hence I’ve been visiting some loopy websites. I found this:

Contact Support

 

[Two Tone]

It has occurred to me that most of the anti-meat lobby refer to beef and the fact that they are ruminants burping methane, yet very little is talked about lamb, which are also ruminants.
Why?

Could it be that our Muslim population would get mightily upset if they were denied it?

Allies come from many places!

 

[DrWazzock]

Firstly sincere best wishes that your Mrs finds answers to bring about a speedy improvement.

Secondly, I was helping my brother knock in some fence posts yesterday from a high point in the landscape. We looked down across fields of green grass where sheep graze. The grass is taking the water well, growing nicely and the sheep are grazing contentedly without leaving a mark. The clover has provided all the nitrogen it needs entirely naturally and the sheep are turning this into highly concentrated proteins and fat. The arable land is lying pretty sodden, vulnerable to erosion with nothing growing on it, vulnerable to leeching of nutrients, and fairly devoid of natural habitat other than beetles and slugs. It will need gallons of diesel, and lashings of chemicals if we decide to grow a cereal on it. It will also need manufactured ammonium nitrate, and every year we repeat this cycle of madness.

And then people say meat is more damaging. Nonsense IMO.

 

[DrWazzock]

How much methane was burped when huge herds roamed the grass plains. How much comes up out of the ground anyway due to natural vegetation rotting down in swamps, bogs and marshes? It's just part of the carbon cycle.

The only unnatural thing is the sudden large amount of CO2 that has been released by burning of fossil fuels. This might a general perturbation in the global climate. Nobody really seems to want to change their lifestyle or aspirations away from reliance of cheap motor fuel so we will just have to suck it up I'm afraid, in the short term while looking long term to reduce usage and maybe lock up more carbon. Much easier said than done. Regeneration of permanent of vegetative cover would help. Pasture and woodland and the meat produced from it are part of the solution IMO, along with sustainable rather than extractive arable farming.

 

[deleted user 837354]

How much methane was burped when huge herds roamed the grass plains. How much comes up out of the ground anyway due to natural vegetation rotting down in swamps, bogs and marshes? It's just part of the carbon cycle.

The only unnatural thing is the sudden large amount of CO2 that has been released by burning of fossil fuels. This might a general perturbation in the global climate. Nobody really seems to want to change their lifestyle or aspirations away from reliance of cheap motor fuel so we will just have to suck it up I'm afraid, in the short term while looking long term to reduce usage and maybe lock up more carbon. Much easier said than done. Regeneration of permanent of vegetative cover would help. Pasture and woodland and the meat produced from it are part of the solution IMO, along with sustainable rather than extractive arable farming.

Of course, before mankind really got in on the act there were vast areas of grassland and scrubland across most continents and these supported millions of ruminant/herbivore animals. These grazed the scrub in a mass and followed the rains. They of course left a trail of manure as they went and formed a larder for many predator species. Even their dung will have attracted a multitude of fauna and in turn fed the soil, the whole process being a massive carbon sink as the soils slowly increased in organic matter over time.

I am not so sure that the more intensive forms of farming can really mimic this as closely but I will not understand the focus on meat, particularly red meat when it comes to climate change. Provided beef and lamb is produced sensibly and not on millions of tonnes of imported soya or the like, it is pretty sustainable in my view- as you alluded to earlier you do not need masses of inputs (although to be fair I view ammonium nitrate as fairly low impact in comparison to other industrial processes) to generate a reasonable supply of food.

 

[digger64]

How much methane was burped when huge herds roamed the grass plains. How much comes up out of the ground anyway due to natural vegetation rotting down in swamps, bogs and marshes? It's just part of the carbon cycle.

The only unnatural thing is the sudden large amount of CO2 that has been released by burning of fossil fuels. This might a general perturbation in the global climate. Nobody really seems to want to change their lifestyle or aspirations away from reliance of cheap motor fuel so we will just have to suck it up I'm afraid, in the short term while looking long term to reduce usage and maybe lock up more carbon. Much easier said than done. Regeneration of permanent of vegetative cover would help. Pasture and woodland and the meat produced from it are part of the solution IMO, along with sustainable rather than extractive arable farming.

Glad some one has highlighted this , they want flood the marshes apparently to lock up carbon , the fact is that if you upset the wet soil or stir the dyke gas comes up - methane , a natural ad plant doing this every day without the help of a cow that they want to condemn - can you eat or drink that evil smelling black stuff in the dyke ?

 

[lloyd]

It has occurred to me that most of the anti-meat lobby refer to beef and the fact that they are ruminants burping methane, yet very little is talked about lamb, which are also ruminants.
Why?

Could it be that our Muslim population would get mightily upset if they were denied it?

Allies come from many places!

They are probably looking at areas of deforestation in the world
which have been turned over to Cattle production.
Don't forget deer are ruminants too so I doubt its religeon related.

 

[Two Tone]

They are probably looking at areas of deforestation in the world
which have been turned over to Cattle production.
Don't forget deer are ruminants too so I doubt its religeon related.

As a deer farmer, I am obviously well aware that they are also ruminants!

The fact remains that our Muslim population are big consumers of lamb (good for them!) and that it is cattle in this country that gets far more blame for environmental problems here, than sheep.

I’ll wager that whenever the subject comes up in the news, it will be pictures cattle that are featured, with rarely any mention of sheep (or deer).

 

[britt]

It's not just ruminants that produce methane, elephants are not ruminants, but I understand that they produce more methane per ton of fibre consumed than ruminants do, because there gut is less efficient.
A rather inconvenient fact for the greens, I suspect.

 

[lloyd]

What's that to do with muslims?
When cattle are blamed for transmitting TB
do they ever mention or show deer?

 

[Two Tone]

What's that to do with muslims?
When cattle are blamed for transmitting TB
do they ever mention or show deer?

Do you not think they might get a bit upset if they were denied or restricted from being able to eat it? I would.

With regards TB, there is a bit of a difference between untested wild deer and farmed deer. Fortunately, ours are free of it despite nearly every herd of cattle locally testing positive.
We do have a lot of badgers and a huge set right by the Deer.
Question is, are they clean badgers or are our deer immune?
I’d actually suggest the former, because they don’t seem to mix with other sets. But I don’t know for sure.

Then there is another question: why do we not test sheep for TB?
It might be bovine TB, but surely sheep could also spread it, just like badgers or wild deer (allegedly).

 

[Bill the Bass]

The Mrs isn’t too bright at the minute so I’ve been hanging around hospitals while she has tests etc all over the country. Not too serious and a long term problem we’re finally trying to get on top of but I can’t get any work done and hence I’ve been visiting some loopy websites. I found this:

Contact Support

I’m not one for conspiracy theory but I do think that veganism and vegetarianism will be looked upon as a big mistake health wise in a few years. In all seriousness the few vegans I know although genuinely decent folk, always look fatigued and are a bit odd in the head.

 

[Agrivator]

In folklore, a will-o'-the-wisp, will-o'-wisp or ignis fatuus (pronounced [ˈfa. tu.us]; Medieval Latin for "fool's fire") is an atmospheric ghost light seen by travellers at night, especially over bogs, swamps or marshes.

Will o'the wisp was often experience by miners and quarry workers when they travelled to and from work over marshy ground. Their lanterns caused methane to ignite. Maybe it was also the origin of the term ''Jack Flash''.

But I would guess that methane emissions form land are no where near as pronounced as the massive eruptions of methane from the sea bed from rotting organic matter.

 

[Canada Farmer]

I’m not one for conspiracy theory but I do think that veganism and vegetarianism will be looked upon as a big mistake health wise in a few years. In all seriousness the few vegans I know although genuinely decent folk, always look fatigued and are a bit odd in the head.

Probably more so with veganism, will be interesting in 30-40 years time when the young people of today start getting problems with calcium deficiency, most notably low bone density. Osteoporosis is going to be a big problem in the future, more so for women.

 

[njneer]

Basically what we have here is the old "Meat is Murder" brigade ,who's militant tactics lost them the public support in the past , rebranded and hitched themselves onto the " environmental" bandwagon now using climate change as a convenient Trojan horse to try and sway public opinion against eating meat and any kind of meat production in the guise that it is somehow saving the planet.

 

[Treg]

As others have said firstly best wishes to you & your Mrs & hope you can find the answers to her illness. I will include you both in my prayers.
A BIG YES to the thread question as has been posted on the forum several times the EFA report gives evidence of Eat - Lancet getting it's members into high positions in the UN & are well funded by Unilever, Bayer, BP, Nestle & several other large companies.
America has come out with it's own report suggesting Agriculture is falling into the control of 4 Big multi national companies.
As livestock farmers, especially beef farmers we probably use alot less inputs compared to our cereal/ veg growing neighbours, so which type of farming do you think Big business would prefer?
Also all the fake meat companies starting up are backed by big business, ICI started quorn !
None of these companies are on our side & as I suggested on The who does the NFU support thread , the NFU are to close to some of these companies even lobbying on their behalf ! Is that right?
Interestingly on the other thread only cereal farmer's thought I was wrong, so are they controlled by these companies by being addicted to their products?

 

[deleted user 837354]

Probably more so with veganism, will be interesting in 30-40 years time when the young people of today start getting problems with calcium deficiency, most notably low bone density. Osteoporosis is going to be a big problem in the future, more so for women.

Absolutely. It will not be helped by vast changes to our diet coupled with people living longer anyway. It isn't just calcium either, it is down to vitamin intake as well- vitamin D of course being found in the exact foods that vegans will totally avoid- eggs, cheese, meat, fatty fish etc.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

So, what do all these millions of pet horses, cats, terrible little dogs with sunglasses and coats on - what do these poor excuses actually contribute to the health of the planet that makes them immune to scrutiny?
I know a certain little dog that does a 150 mile round trip for a haircut every few weeks, FFS, some of these people need to have a fresh look around them before they come after my livestock for their agenda

Agenda this: we are all on the same bloody side!!