A Degree in Agriculture?

[Flatlander]

Education is good for teaching you how to learn but in the real world how to apply what you’ve learn is the hard part. Seen lots with degrees in various fields that are f in useless. common sense and the want to learn with an open mind will take you far. Easier today to google a question and forums can be used to access the experiences of real life intelligence. Personally wouldn’t advise against getting an ag degree but often think ones with it rely on it a little too much. Have a close friend that farms in devon and he asked Harper Adams if they had a couple of ag students that would want summer jobs on his dairy,after Being asked what capacity they would be employed he was advised to look elsewhere as their students were more suited to managerial positions unless he was willing to step back and hand over the day to day running of the farm they wouldn’t offer him as a placement option. Everyone need a start in life but that piece of paper is only step one.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Who cares about why?

If you don't understand how something works, how are you going to manipulate it? I think if you understand what is happening, then there's much less chance of getting something wrong.

More likely to be mis sold something by a feed rep if you don't know what you're doing or why you're feeding it.

Easier to prevent or control a disease if you understand the epidemiology. Easier to prevent a metabolic disease if you understand the biochemical interactions imho.

I'm hopeless with electrics. My brother understands electrics, and hence he can quickly diagnose faults. There's no way I could ever diagnose those faults unless I spent a few weeks learning about electrical systems.

I get your sentiment though. If something is working in practice, then it's working. You don't need to know how am imternal combustion engine works, all the practising farmer needs to know is that he needs 140hp to pull a 5 furrow plough. And always the option to employ a consultant.

I think someone who has more knowledge about a subject, will have more chance of succeeding than a person who has comparatively less knowledge.

 

[Frodo]

Back in the day farmers sent their sons to college just to get them off the farm for a couple of years so that they could return “matured”.

I think that’s a good reason for further education. Who really wants to employ a 16 year old in any business.

 

[glasshouse]

If you don't understand how something works, how are you going to manipulate it? I think if you understand what is happening, then there's much less chance of getting something wrong.

More likely to be mis sold something by a feed rep if you don't know what you're doing or why you're feeding it.

Easier to prevent or control a disease if you understand the epidemiology. Easier to prevent a metabolic disease if you understand the biochemical interactions imho.

I'm hopeless with electrics. My brother understands electrics, and hence he can quickly diagnose faults. There's no way I could ever diagnose those faults unless I spent a few weeks learning about electrical systems.

I get your sentiment though. If something is working in practice, then it's working. You don't need to know how am imternal combustion engine works, all the practising farmer needs to know is that he needs 140hp to pull a 5 furrow plough. And always the option to employ a consultant.

I think someone who has more knowledge about a subject, will have more chance of succeeding than a person who has comparatively less knowledge.

Broad based knowledge is whats required
The most important aspect of cattle is how to buy and sell them.

 

[glasshouse]

I used to know how things work,
But modern iphones and vario tractors are just witchcraft.

 

[egbert]

What exactly do people gain from it?
Farming is 90% hard graft and 20% inherited nowse innit?
I “did” engineering and without that I’d be well n truly felled as an arable farmer, though my old man taught me more of that than uni. The agronomist specs the chemicals, I did PA1 and 2 and FACTS. I am NROSO.
So why should I do an Ag degree.

2 people close to me have ag degrees.
1 has worked for a (friendly) overseas gov, based in London, for decades....lives comfortably, does nought to do with farming
The other worked overseas - nought agri- to raise a stake to return to the UK to go into business.
He retired at 50, a gozillionaire - still nought agri. The consortium he was 25% of continue to exist, and grow his money.
He lives very happily on a 90 acre farm he bought - he rents the land out.

I can't easily think of any farmers who've agri degrees.....1 or 2 with careful thought.
Those who've done best in farming (and I'm going to be vulgar, and guess at their net increase in land assets over a period of time working full time in agri)....
Some have done it by continued shrewd farming and hard work.
It's seldom glamorous, often led to a marked niggardly attitude in business (IMHO), and often proved conclusively that it's better to be poor but happy.
Others - and if I was more successful I'd be one- happened to have landed on their feet by circumstance.
In my case a good AHA on land gov want to throw money at, others happened to have chosen right as trade/policy ebbed and flowed.
(I'm thinking of some who went into and/or out of milk at the right times, with very fortuitous results, and those who borrowed heavily to buy land at the right moment)

none of that needed a degree.

 

[glasshouse]

2 people close to me have ag degrees.
1 has worked for a (friendly) overseas gov, based in London, for decades....lives comfortably, does nought to do with farming
The other worked overseas - nought agri- to raise a stake to return to the UK to go into business.
He retired at 50, a gozillionaire - still nought agri. The consortium he was 25% of continue to exist, and grow his money.
He lives very happily on a 90 acre farm he bought - he rents the land out.

I can't easily think of any farmers who've agri degrees.....1 or 2 with careful thought.
Those who've done best in farming (and I'm going to be vulgar, and guess at their net increase in land assets over a period of time working full time in agri)....
Some have done it by continued shrewd farming and hard work.
It's seldom glamorous, often led to a marked niggardly attitude in business (IMHO), and often proved conclusively that it's better to be poor but happy.
Others - and if I was more successful I'd be one- happened to have landed on their feet by circumstance.
In my case a good AHA on land gov want to throw money at, others happened to have chosen right as trade/policy ebbed and flowed.
(I'm thinking of some who went into and/or out of milk at the right times, with very fortuitous results, and those who borrowed heavily to buy land at the right moment)

none of that needed a degree.

A degree in gambling would be better for farming since we gamble every day.
In fact a fellow hnd ag student pal gave up his job with hmrc to follow the horses full time

 

[Campbell]

Education qualifications are proof that at 'some point' you have managed to apply yourself to, and understand a subject in some detail. The greater the qualification, the greater your proof of being able to understand stuff. Generally good education does lead to a better standard of living. Of course, if you were born with a natural talent for business, or part of a wealthy and influential family, a formal education becomes an option.....

 

[glasshouse]

Education qualifications are proof that at 'some point' you have managed to apply yourself to, and understand a subject in some detail. The greater the qualification, the greater your proof of being able to understand stuff. Generally good education does lead to a better standard of living. Of course, if you were born with a natural talent for business, or part of a wealthy and influential family, a formal education becomes an option.....

Nowadays the best way to get on is to be born into a large pot of money/land/property as they jave been targetted by govt to get wealthier.
Like the old joke about a person asking the way in ireland.
“If you want to get to dublin, i wouldn't be starting from here”

 

[glasshouse]

Back in the day farmers sent their sons to college just to get them off the farm for a couple of years so that they could return “matured”.

It should be compulsory
Including a year working away from home like the old hnd

 

[toquark]

The degrees they hand out now are bollox.
No practical skills are taught.
I recently employed a bsc ag graduate to fix my roof, cant even drive a tractor

I wouldn’t expect a degree level course to teach tractor driving.

However, in my day we did an industrial placement for a year to teach or hone the practical element, unfortunately most colleges seem to have jettisoned that in favour of higher student turnover

 

[toquark]

Nowadays the best way to get on is to be born into a large pot of money/land/property as they jave been targetted by govt to get wealthier.
Like the old joke about a person asking the way in ireland.
“If you want to get to dublin, i wouldn't be starting from here”

T’was ever thus

 

[glasshouse]

T’was ever thus

No, it is far worse now
Labour used to “tax the rich till their pips squeaked”
Now they represent the rich

 

[toquark]

I know plenty with degrees who have done well and apart from the probable liver damage, it’s done me no harm.

The ones I know who have made real money though are the risk takers and few of them have degrees.

 

[Kentishfarmer]

As a working farmer with a Agri BSc, for me I think it had a significant positive impact on both me and the farm. Its not so much the technical stuff you learn (I graduated 6 years ago and what I havent forgotten is now becoming out of date), its about processes of how to think, approach problems, the contacts you make, broadening your mind. The farm business and farm business law modules have been very useful.
Anecdotally going back a generation the farms locally where they didn't do any further education have ultimately stagnated and gone backwards and those who did, even a 1 year course, generally have progressed and grown.
Saying all that if I had to pay today's tuition fees I would have thought twice about going

 

[Buggerallbandwidth]

What exactly do people gain from it?
Farming is 90% hard graft and 20% inherited nowse innit?
I “did” engineering and without that I’d be well n truly felled as an arable farmer, though my old man taught me more of that than uni. The agronomist specs the chemicals, I did PA1 and 2 and FACTS. I am NROSO.
So why should I do an Ag degree.

A hefty dose of common sense gets you a long way, especially in hard graft farming. A degree, as already mentioned, will get you to an interview where you can then prove you have practical common sense.
I am a middle child. Elder brother left school at 16 and was at home on the farm (300 ac tennanted) so I had to make my own way. Did Ag Science degree which led me into agronomy and more.
Brother is very canny and done very well himself on the farm, diversifying when required, getting out when the money is no longer there and trying something else. No degree needed. Packed with common sense.

 

[steveR]

I think that’s a good reason for further education. Who really wants to employ a 16 year old in any business.

No problem here in having a 16yo over the years, what I objected to, was the assumption, by the training bodies, that they were worth paying a wage to...!!

 

[Scholsey]

Did a 3 year National diploma (a level equivalent) which had a placement year and then a 2 year foundation degree (HND), National diploma was great, lived in at college had a great laugh, learned a lot but also learnt how to learn if that makes sense, but IMHO my HND was complete waste of time, I would have been better going to work overseas for 2 years possibly for a period in another industry.

 

[egbert]

It should be compulsory
Including a year working away from home like the old hnd

There are still several trades in Germany - and crossing over into other conti countries- where a well structured apprenticeship is the norm.
And after the lad has qualified, his 'master' fires him, and he has to go on his 'journey', becoming a journeyman.
(Journeyman being the basic level of qualified craftsman)
He/she must travel at least XX kms from home, and cannot stay anywhere longer than YY weeks.
A master has to give a travelling journeyman work and lodgings.
The lads MUST wear the guild 'uniform' at all times, so anyone can see they're a journeyman, from such and such a guild, and conversely, should they stupidly step out of line...they know it'll get straight back to their home town.
There's lots more rules- this is Germany we're talking about after all- that initially seem silly, but absolutely work.

It's a brilliant system, answering so many issues for youngsters.
I've known many who've ended up over here on their journey, and it's always obviously a good thing for a lad- or lass- to do.

Mebbe the YFC should extend into something of the ilk, tied up with whatever colleges still actually teach farming.

 

[Princess Pooper]

An agricultural degree was never practical, in the 'olden days' when I went to Uni it was OND or HND for those expecting to work hands-on, BSc for research, advisory, etc. I didn't come from a farming background but in the 1980's you had to do a Pre-Uni practical to give you some grounding. I filled in all my holidays with milking, haymaking, lambing, Christmas poultry, harvest & cultivations and hop harvest, even if I wasn't getting paid, to 'up' my experience.

Uni gave me a great technical grounding.
It taught to me to research facts and evidence and come to my own conclusions.
It taught me to debate and argue a point (hopefully eloquently) but to respect the views of others.
It taught me that agrics are dedicated - we all cared passionately about our subject.
It taught me to mix with people from all walks of life, agric and non-agric, English, music, electronic engineering, marine science students I met in my first week have remained friends for life.
For many (not me as I had worked away from home for a year) it gets them away from home - I think kids nowadays are already subject to helicopter parenting much more than we were. Learn to stand on your own feet, manage your finances, cook your meals, live with others in hall or a house and learn all about compromise.
It didn't teach me to milk cows or drive a tractor. It's not supposed to. Sure I can do all of that now, I learned that from hard graft, often unpaid, as a young woman with no experience working her way through the industry.

I still use much of the basic scientific principles that I learned at Uni.

Sweeping statement alert - tin hat on.

Many farmer's sons and daughters imbibe what their parents teach them and it is often out of date and prejudiced. They don't like being challenged and can't back up their opinions with evidence or fact. They often only mix in other farming circles. Even if they don't want to go to College or Uni they should at the very least be kicked out to go and live away from home and work for someone else for a few years and preferably get abroad too.

The counter balance - many ag graduates have never put in the hard graft on farms that is needed to understand the realities, the compromises needed to get keep within NVZ and soil guidance. They need to do a compulsory year or two getting their boots muddy.