A different tack on sheep tack?

[Walterp]

Back in the day, taking sheep on tack in the Winters on a decent farm, in a mild grassland area, was a great idea: 50p per head per week paid the farmer's grocery bill, or the interest on his borrowings.

Lots of things have changed since those happy days, when a family's grocery bill was under £100 a week. For starters, there's less 200 acre dairy farms about, as herds migrate to bigger units which don't want to see a sheep on the place; then there's the beef guys who are trying to extend their grazing seasons, as corn became dearer; plus the lack of fencing maintenance on many farms over the last 15 years, as labour and materials also got dearer, whilst the tack rate stayed static for many years.

Result? Less decent tack around, so sheep farmers end up paying more, looking further afield, or reading a Rappa fencing catalogue. Or - truly a Ceredigion sheep farmer's nightmare - a combination of all three.

Thing is, even I can spot a trend like this - as the years roll by, there's going to be less and less tack offered. There'd be a wholesale in-wintering shed-building splurge going on right now, if ewe numbers hadn't fortuitously declined in tandem.

So, just as beef farmers are experimenting with out-wintering their cattle, how do sheep farmers get by with in-wintering their sheep?

 

[d williams]

Back in the day, taking sheep on tack in the Winters on a decent farm, in a mild grassland area, was a great idea: 50p per head per week paid the farmer's grocery bill, or the interest on his borrowings.

Lots of things have changed since those happy days, when a family's grocery bill was under £100 a week. For starters, there's less 200 acre dairy farms about, as herds migrate to bigger units which don't want to see a sheep on the place; then there's the beef guys who are trying to extend their grazing seasons, as corn became dearer; plus the lack of fencing maintenance on many farms over the last 15 years, as labour and materials also got dearer, whilst the tack rate stayed static for many years.

Result? Less decent tack around, so sheep farmers end up paying more, looking further afield, or reading a Rappa fencing catalogue. Or - truly a Ceredigion sheep farmer's nightmare - a combination of all three.

Thing is, even I can spot a trend like this - as the years roll by, there's going to be less and less tack offered. There'd be a wholesale in-wintering shed-building splurge going on right now, if ewe numbers hadn't fortuitously declined in tandem.

So, just as beef farmers are experimenting with out-wintering their cattle, how do sheep farmers get by with in-wintering their sheep?

A dairy farmer friend used to say sheep tack was treated as a extra milk cheque

 

[multi power]

A dairy farmer friend used to say sheep tack was treated as a extra milk cheque

that cheque would not even go half way towards paying for extra time housed

sheep tack on a dairy farm is a mugs game

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Have winter sheared and in wintered for several years. Have personally got hold of more winter keep in recent times & at cheaper rates than you suggest Walter so have looked to cut costs and out winter more.

But I find the winter shearing and housing works well, sheep respond well to it and it gives a better bite to go at in spring.
My uncle describes it as buying acres - it enables you to keep more sheep per acre overall.

With my own change of breed to a more forage based system, it would be interesting to do costings to wintering in on forage (wholecrop perhaps) then turn out to lamb on grass. I know some do this.

 

[d williams]

that cheque would not even go half way towards paying for extra time housed

sheep tack on a dairy farm is a mugs game

Not according to him nice income and cleans up ground they're farm would not be a winter cattle grazing farm

 

[jonny]

Have winter sheared and in wintered for several years. Have personally got hold of more winter keep in recent times & at cheaper rates than you suggest Walter so have looked to cut costs and out winter more.

But I find the winter shearing and housing works well, sheep respond well to it and it gives a better bite to go at in spring.
My uncle describes it as buying acres - it enables you to keep more sheep per acre overall.

With my own change of breed to a more forage based system, it would be interesting to do costings to wintering in on forage (wholecrop perhaps) then turn out to lamb on grass. I know some do this.

Have been keeping the ewes housed on slats over 20 years on slats, normally housed at Christmas for mid march lambing, it's a bit extra work feeding but you're not depending on anyone for grass which will be there on a wet winter when there's no feeding in it but none there on a good year as the cows will graze it to the clay and you can get on top of the fluke cycle by taking them in for a couple of months. In Ireland there's paperwork to be filled out, the farmer who is taking them in has to enter them into his herd and take them out again when they're leaving, most cow men have enough paperwork without that.

 

[will6910]

we send are ewes and ewe lambs away to winter graze from end of October to 1st week of January, then bring all home and house on mesh until lambing in march, does mean have to make silage tho as no other animals but sheep, but we have experimented lady year with feeding straw and meal once housed to hold condition then switch to silage in plenty of time to allow no sudden chsnged in diet, this means haven't as big of need of winter grazing and to produce as much silage

 

[dontknowanything]

I advertised some winter grazing not too long ago, and had dozens of people calling me from Wales, Cheshire, Yorkshire etc.

IMHO if you have to take sheep from Wales to East Anglia, then you have too many.

 

[JD-Kid]

we used to take cows on for grazeing as it worked out well for extra income at that time but we were not puying in feed to keep our sheep going i would say any gains would be lost if haveing to pay for feeds cows would have been better staying out longer

sheep will wreck a paddock just as quick as cows

the paddocks used to keep cows out longer should be the ones on the list for regrassing or plow up after the grazeing and put in to spring feeds crops etc

 

[multi power]

we used to take cows on for grazeing as it worked out well for extra income at that time but we were not puying in feed to keep our sheep going i would say any gains would be lost if haveing to pay for feeds cows would have been better staying out longer

sheep will wreck a paddock just as quick as cows

the paddocks used to keep cows out longer should be the ones on the list for regrassing or plow up after the grazeing and put in to spring feeds crops etc

exactly, but people dont seem to see it that way

i have even been told cant reeseed as too much grass would be lost between ploughing n seeding !

 

[JD-Kid]

exactly, but people dont seem to see it that way

i have even been told cant reeseed as too much grass would be lost between ploughing n seeding !

if that much grass is lost then it would not need a reseed 99% of the cases the extra gains in feed and animals far out weigh any losses
guess it's all about knowing total DM per acre and the cost of that DM to make the best return i would question getting say 4 p a kgdm and it's costing 5 to grow it and spending 12 kgdm to buy in feed

 

[neilo]

I advertised some winter grazing not too long ago, and had dozens of people calling me from Wales, Cheshire, Yorkshire etc.

IMHO if you have to take sheep from Wales to East Anglia, then you have too many.

I think lots of people found they had too many sheep for LAST winter.

 

[DrDunc]

I think lots of people found they had too many sheep for LAST winter.

Aye, but fluke and the weather sure thinned the numbers down

 

[multi power]

if that much grass is lost then it would not need a reseed 99% of the cases the extra gains in feed and animals far out weigh any losses
guess it's all about knowing total DM per acre and the cost of that DM to make the best return i would question getting say 4 p a kgdm and it's costing 5 to grow it and spending 12 kgdm to buy in feed

dad always recons a 50% increase in prouduction from new reeseed in first year

 

[JD-Kid]

more than covers the cost and loss of grazeing ... wonder why somany don't

 

[dontknowanything]

I think lots of people found they had too many sheep for LAST winter.

Well I'm advertising for this coming winter, not last, so they must still have too many

 

[Y Fan Wen]

Of course there are 2 different kinds of tack. Us mountain men know that the replacements have to have a holiday over their first winter, otherwise it has a permanent effect on their production.
The other kind is to reduce the winter stocking of the whole flock.
I do the first but have never done the second.

 

[Spartacus]

Of course there are 2 different kinds of tack. Us mountain men know that the replacements have to have a holiday over their first winter, otherwise it has a permanent effect on their production.
The other kind is to reduce the winter stocking of the whole flock.
I do the first but have never done the second.

We do the same, once had a neighbours go out of sheep and he offered us the grazing over winter but it only lasted a year as he didnt get as much from it in money as he expected despite the fact he dictated the price anyway! Following year he restocked with the sheep for himself :/
I do have friends down on the flat lands of the coast, one who had sheep himself and one who had none, the one with sheep never had a goose on the pace in winter, the other was covered in them eating his grass and not paying him for it either! Took him a few years of me winding him up and asking him to take some of ours to realise he should have some lambs for winter but now he has every year but they arent ours :/

 

[JD-Kid]

Of course there are 2 different kinds of tack. Us mountain men know that the replacements have to have a holiday over their first winter, otherwise it has a permanent effect on their production.
The other kind is to reduce the winter stocking of the whole flock.
I do the first but have never done the second.

alot of guys used to send hoggets away down country don't any more found they come back useless too soft and it masked the breeding to much i take it you are also mateing them the frist year

 

[Y Fan Wen]

alot of guys used to send hoggets away down country don't any more found they come back useless too soft and it masked the breeding to much i take it you are also mateing them the frist year

No Fear! Tried it and never again. OTOH I don't care too much if the odd ones do go visiting, unlike some of my neighbours who throw a complete wobbly if it happens. One I know, sells them as couples after lambing and as killers if they lambed unsuccessfully. On no account will he have them in the flock.