A matter of life, or death...

Good work and clear thinking.

I have not long ago done a detailed first aid course, covered adults and children and these kinds of subjects were discussed.

You need to decide on what constitutes an infant, a child and an adult. You should not give full on abdo thrusts on an infant or small children. Older kids are a bit safer.

Small points of note: anyone who has had full abdominal thrusts done like you meant it needs to be given medical assessment soon after as you can inadvertently damage an internal organ or their diaphragm.

If the object has not come out after repeated back slaps or abdominal thrusts and the patient becomes unresponsive, give CPR- blowing the object deeper in children is a risk but one lung is better than none- chest compressions may help force the object out- check for it after each breath.

I am hoping to train as a community first responder- folk who can be activated locally to attend this kind of emergency because they will arrive before an ambulance does.

I believe first aid is routinely taught to even primary school children in Denmark.
 

Raider112

Member
I remember years ago my cousin was choking on a boiled sweet, they picked him up by the legs and hit his back and it dislodged the sweet, I imagine that was the policy with young kids but may be wrong and as a disclaimer, DO NOT TAKE THIS AS FACT. But well done Danillan, an awful experience.
 

wr.

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Breconshire
My brothers and I did first aid for several years while in YFC for the Efficiency & Safety competitions and because of that I was able to save the life of a neighbour after she was pinned against a gate by a car. Her young son opened the gate and the car ran over her. (I went on to meet and marry her sister)
First aid should be compulsory in schools at least.
Well done Danllan.
 

Old Boar

Member
Location
West Wales
I have done many first aid courses, but ages ago, so should look into topping up my learning when things are more stable. Advice changes all the time.
Well done. Your knowledge and training kicked in when needed. It is easy to go into panic mode and not do the right thing, or anything. I am so glad it all had a happy ending.
Incidentally, if anyone feels like they are going to panic about anything, pop an ice cube in your mouth. It stops the panic. Eating anything drops the adrenaline level, but an ice cube is the best.
 

theboytheboy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Portsmouth
Sorry mod's for posting here, but it really should be as widely read as possible. To everyone else, please read...

Yesterday afternoon I left my children eating in the kitchen, Mrs Danllan was at work, I was only in the next room and had just started to clear up some of their 'destruction' when my oldest boy rushed in. He was rather excited, I couldn't make out what he was saying, so I told him to be quiet, think what he wanted to say, and then say it clearly.

He told me my little girl was choking... I ran in to the kitchen, and she was indeed choking. She was terrified, red in the face and clearly panicking. The others were frightened and crying too by then - all of them are primary age, her the youngest.

I've done enough First Aid to know the drills, even a paediatric resus' course years ago, so I checked in her mouth to see if the obstruction could be seen and maybe pulled out, it was out of sight. Next I tried striking her on the back, progressively harder strikes, checked the mouth again, nothing. I did this several times, quickly, all with no result.

I moved on to the Heimlich technique, only using one hand in a fist because of her being so small. Several goes, in turns with some more strikes on her back, no good. By now she had been a darker red and was starting to look blue - I told my oldest boy to call 999 for an ambulance.

I had to communicate with the call handler while carrying on, she had a medic on the way immediately; by now the blueness was clear and I decided that I wouldn't waste more time talking. I didn't know what was in her throat but I knew that if the Heimlich thrusts didn't work soon, I'd have to either try and force the object down past the tracheal branch - a bad choice in a small child - or cut her for a crico-thyroid tube insertion - something I've seen done but have never done myself, a truly horrible thought...

I gave her a couple more rotations of back-strikes and Heimlich thrusts, nothing. Her colour got worse. I decided I'd do two more rotations and then resort to cutting. I did the last two cycles, no luck. I gave one more Heimlich thrust, out of desperation, and it came out like a rocket! A slice of sausage over an inch wide and maybe a quarter as thick.

I tried to cancel the ambulance, but it came anyway because she is a child, and we had an evening trip to the paediatric A & E 'tent' at Glangwili in Carmarthen. She already had some bruising on her back and was complaining that her tummy hurt, but the consultant poked and looked and listened and declared all well and, for an irony, gave me a big pat on the back. Having, by then, returned to her normal way of being, my girl's greatest worry was when the red dots - blood vessels - showing around her eyes would go... relief all round.

I've had live bullets come at me, fallen badly while climbing, had wild and domestic animals try to kill me, but I have never, ever been so scared as I was at the realistic thought of my little girl dying... I found myself rather thoughtful last night. Serious lump-in-the-throat time...

Point is, if you haven't done a first aid course, could you save your little girl, boy, wife, husband or anyone else? Do one.
Puts stuff into perspective fast.

Thanks for posting helps remind me that most things that bother me during a day are utterly meaningless as long as my loved ones are ok.

And well done for your first aid efforts!
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
Had a similar experience earlier this year with out daughter who was 10 months old at the time

OH had popped out to the shop and I gave our girl an apple segment as she was eating fruits by then. She starto choke, both me and our young son panicked, i picked her up and placed her in one hand face down and gave her around 3 or 4 quite violent slaps that thankfully did the trick. OH returned to quite an emotional household to say the least.

I had already booked myself on a 1 day emergency first aid at work course prior to the incident, the course was in 2 weeks time. Without doubt the best 7 hour course i have ever attended, and will go yearly now for the refresher
 

james ds

Member
Location
leinster
Sorry mod's for posting here, but it really should be as widely read as possible. To everyone else, please read...

Yesterday afternoon I left my children eating in the kitchen, Mrs Danllan was at work, I was only in the next room and had just started to clear up some of their 'destruction' when my oldest boy rushed in. He was rather excited, I couldn't make out what he was saying, so I told him to be quiet, think what he wanted to say, and then say it clearly.

He told me my little girl was choking... I ran in to the kitchen, and she was indeed choking. She was terrified, red in the face and clearly panicking. The others were frightened and crying too by then - all of them are primary age, her the youngest.

I've done enough First Aid to know the drills, even a paediatric resus' course years ago, so I checked in her mouth to see if the obstruction could be seen and maybe pulled out, it was out of sight. Next I tried striking her on the back, progressively harder strikes, checked the mouth again, nothing. I did this several times, quickly, all with no result.

I moved on to the Heimlich technique, only using one hand in a fist because of her being so small. Several goes, in turns with some more strikes on her back, no good. By now she had been a darker red and was starting to look blue - I told my oldest boy to call 999 for an ambulance.

I had to communicate with the call handler while carrying on, she had a medic on the way immediately; by now the blueness was clear and I decided that I wouldn't waste more time talking. I didn't know what was in her throat but I knew that if the Heimlich thrusts didn't work soon, I'd have to either try and force the object down past the tracheal branch - a bad choice in a small child - or cut her for a crico-thyroid tube insertion - something I've seen done but have never done myself, a truly horrible thought...

I gave her a couple more rotations of back-strikes and Heimlich thrusts, nothing. Her colour got worse. I decided I'd do two more rotations and then resort to cutting. I did the last two cycles, no luck. I gave one more Heimlich thrust, out of desperation, and it came out like a rocket! A slice of sausage over an inch wide and maybe a quarter as thick.

I tried to cancel the ambulance, but it came anyway because she is a child, and we had an evening trip to the paediatric A & E 'tent' at Glangwili in Carmarthen. She already had some bruising on her back and was complaining that her tummy hurt, but the consultant poked and looked and listened and declared all well and, for an irony, gave me a big pat on the back. Having, by then, returned to her normal way of being, my girl's greatest worry was when the red dots - blood vessels - showing around her eyes would go... relief all round.

I've had live bullets come at me, fallen badly while climbing, had wild and domestic animals try to kill me, but I have never, ever been so scared as I was at the realistic thought of my little girl dying... I found myself rather thoughtful last night. Serious lump-in-the-throat time...

Point is, if you haven't done a first aid course, could you save your little girl, boy, wife, husband or anyone else? Do one.
Well done , it’s very tough trying to save a life when your not use to it , I gave cpr to my father after he collapsed with a heart attack, I worked on him until the medics arrived , they still had a pulse and worked hard , jump packs the lot , but eventually they gave up and I lost him , the only consolation was he was 89 and had a great life , I couldn’t bear if happened to my children . Well done again. And that first aid course is vital.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Well done , it’s very tough trying to save a life when your not use to it , I gave cpr to my father after he collapsed with a heart attack, I worked on him until the medics arrived , they still had a pulse and worked hard , jump packs the lot , but eventually they gave up and I lost him , the only consolation was he was 89 and had a great life , I couldn’t bear if happened to my children . Well done again. And that first aid course is vital.
That brought tears to my eyes
, sorry about the loss of your father.
 

rick_vandal

Member
Location
Soft South
Very well written by a good father, yet kids are stronger than we think. They heal and forget and eat another sausage! Consider new-born lambs being swung about when their life is escaping? Drowning/choking/electrocution can kill without intervention, so there is nothing to lose, not even a cracked rib. The patient is dead, anything helps. So, when could breathing through a Biro become a life changer?
 

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
A friend collapsed in the farm yard with me one late afternoon, about six weeks ago. We were just about to go home for the evening. I found him sitting up against a wall trying to be sick. He had probably only been like that for a couple of minutes. I tried to ask him what was wrong, but he was unable to focus on me due to the vomiting, and what also probably transpired to be shortness of breath. I knew it wasn't good, and got on the phone straight way to 999. Had to leave him for a minute or two to go higher up the yard, as O2 signal has become woeful locally in the last few months, and the operator was having trouble hearing me. I explained the symptoms, and that he was conscious and relatively coherent, but that I knew he had a history of heart trouble. The operator said help was on its way, and I gave clear instructions as to the location.

I don't want to go into the details of the next few minutes (probably 15) while waiting for the ambulance, but his condition slipped during that time, and he was in pain. When the ambulance arrived, he was still conscious, just. They decided the back of the van was the only place for him, but as soon as they lifted him onto the stretcher he went into final shutdown. In the van he became unresponsive immediately, and they said they would have to shut the doors. I knew CPR was beginning. The ambulance rocked slightly for the next 30-40 minutes, with one coming out to warn that the outcome was not looking good. And so they had to stop and leave him to nature. They worked hard to save him.

It was not the first time I'd seen a corpse by any means. Wakes in Northern Ireland mean you see quite a few open coffins. But they are very dead. This was the first time I had been in the presence of a passing - a part of it. Someone who wasn't old by today's standards at 58, and who was laughing and joking minutes before he was struck down. It was upsetting.

Rules meant that, as he had died in a public place i.e. a farm yard, and not his home, police had to act on behalf of the county coroner and direct the body. And so we had most of an hour's wait during which I discussed it with the paramedics. It was quite enlightening, in a not overly heartening way. One in particular had 20 year experience on the job. He said that they had a good idea what they were called to wasn't good -

1. Calls to farms rarely have happy endings. Slurry gasses, falls from roofs, limbs being torn off, crush injuries, cattle attack etc, and farmers simply having a habit of leaving it too long to report a change in their health.

2. It was raining, and patient was on the ground at the time of report, and had not made it to a house/office. If someone with a heart issue is immobile, the outcome prospects plummet.

They said it is also not uncommon for any significant load placed on the patient's heart to nip the final string - in this case the lift onto the stretcher - but that if I had moved him back up into a sitting position, it would have probably happened then. Which is why when someone doesn't get up and stagger to a house, it's a poor sign.

The jumps in the ambulance fired once, and he had absolutely no output, and so that was as far as the defib went. The doctor's report suggested that the computer in the ambulance detected multiple failures, and that there was no prospect of a good outcome, even if he had been walking down a hospital corridor at the time it happened.

It doesn't soften the loss much though. But it's a cautionary tale that when your time comes, for some people there's no human intervention that dramatically alters its course.
 

H200GT

Member
Location
NORTH WALES
A friend collapsed in the farm yard with me one late afternoon, about six weeks ago. We were just about to go home for the evening. I found him sitting up against a wall trying to be sick. He had probably only been like that for a couple of minutes. I tried to ask him what was wrong, but he was unable to focus on me due to the vomiting, and what also probably transpired to be shortness of breath. I knew it wasn't good, and got on the phone straight way to 999. Had to leave him for a minute or two to go higher up the yard, as O2 signal has become woeful locally in the last few months, and the operator was having trouble hearing me. I explained the symptoms, and that he was conscious and relatively coherent, but that I knew he had a history of heart trouble. The operator said help was on its way, and I gave clear instructions as to the location.

I don't want to go into the details of the next few minutes (probably 15) while waiting for the ambulance, but his condition slipped during that time, and he was in pain. When the ambulance arrived, he was still conscious, just. They decided the back of the van was the only place for him, but as soon as they lifted him onto the stretcher he went into final shutdown. In the van he became unresponsive immediately, and they said they would have to shut the doors. I knew CPR was beginning. The ambulance rocked slightly for the next 30-40 minutes, with one coming out to warn that the outcome was not looking good. And so they had to stop and leave him to nature. They worked hard to save him.

It was not the first time I'd seen a corpse by any means. Wakes in Northern Ireland mean you see quite a few open coffins. But they are very dead. This was the first time I had been in the presence of a passing - a part of it. Someone who wasn't old by today's standards at 58, and who was laughing and joking minutes before he was struck down. It was upsetting.

Rules meant that, as he had died in a public place i.e. a farm yard, and not his home, police had to act on behalf of the county coroner and direct the body. And so we had most of an hour's wait during which I discussed it with the paramedics. It was quite enlightening, in a not overly heartening way. One in particular had 20 year experience on the job. He said that they had a good idea what they were called to wasn't good -

1. Calls to farms rarely have happy endings. Slurry gasses, falls from roofs, limbs being torn off, crush injuries, cattle attack etc, and farmers simply having a habit of leaving it too long to report a change in their health.

2. It was raining, and patient was on the ground at the time of report, and had not made it to a house/office. If someone with a heart issue is immobile, the outcome prospects plummet.

They said it is also not uncommon for any significant load placed on the patient's heart to nip the final string - in this case the lift onto the stretcher - but that if I had moved him back up into a sitting position, it would have probably happened then. Which is why when someone doesn't get up and stagger to a house, it's a poor sign.

The jumps in the ambulance fired once, and he had absolutely no output, and so that was as far as the defib went. The doctor's report suggested that the computer in the ambulance detected multiple failures, and that there was no prospect of a good outcome, even if he had been walking down a hospital corridor at the time it happened.

It doesn't soften the loss much though. But it's a cautionary tale that when your time comes, for some people there's no human intervention that dramatically alters its course.

Experienced a very similar situation with the same sad ending when i was 18. We did all we could for our colleague that morning, but reality was there was little that could be done.

The wait for the ambulance to arrive felt like hours at the time, when in reality it was around quarter of an hour.

Changed my perspective on life somewhat.

Sorry for your loss
 

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