A question for Brexit hating Guardian readers or any other Remainers

[ollie989898]

There is no such thing as fair trade, free trade without restriction or tariffs is what I am talking about.

Yes free trade means no subsidies. Even for agriculture. Who the heck cares about farm subsidies in the context of a much larger national decision like this??

If the UK government is no good vote in another one.

 

[little_p]

There is no such thing as fair trade, free trade without restriction or tariffs is what I am talking about.

Yes free trade means no subsidies. Even for agriculture. Who the heck cares about farm subsidies in the context of a much larger national decision like this??

If the UK government is no good vote in another one.

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Yes, I think that the post-Brexit the voters will decide that May, Davis, Fox et al are 'no good' and will vote in another lot. And the other lots voters / influencers have a particular dislike of landowners.

And yes, very few people will give a damn about the subsidies for smallish scale farmers (which I assume the OP is)
farm subsidies when in national level trade agreement negotiations.

 

[ollie989898]

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Yes, I think that the post-Brexit the voters will decide that May, Davis, Fox et al are 'no good' and will vote in another lot. And the other lots voters / influencers have a particular dislike of landowners.

And yes, very few people will give a damn about the subsidies for smallish scale farmers (which I assume the OP is)
farm subsidies when in national level trade agreement negotiations.

I was making a general comment, not aimed as a response to you or anyone in particular.

Subsidies are a non-issue and will evaporate anyway in time.

 

[turbo]

There is no such thing as fair trade, free trade without restriction or tariffs is what I am talking about.

Yes free trade means no subsidies. Even for agriculture. Who the heck cares about farm subsidies in the context of a much larger national decision like this??

If the UK government is no good vote in another one.

Yeah right,globalization’s is finished,the people are seeing through it

 

[wanton dwarf]

There is no such thing as fair trade, free trade without restriction or tariffs is what I am talking about.

Yes free trade means no subsidies. Even for agriculture. Who the heck cares about farm subsidies in the context of a much larger national decision like this??

If the UK government is no good vote in another one.

Totally disagree.

For free trade to operate the UK would have to regulate on the lowest common denominator and climate taxes would have to disappear.

Both regulation and taxes are very unlikely to disappear. Without they do, local UK industry would have to compete at a disadvantage which just leads to job losses and social unrest.

 

[ollie989898]

Totally disagree.

For free trade to operate the UK would have to regulate on the lowest common denominator and climate taxes would have to disappear.

Both regulation and taxes are very unlikely to disappear. Without they do, local UK industry would have to compete at a disadvantage which just leads to job losses and social unrest.

You cant grasp the detail of what I am saying. You are complaining trade isnt fair. Ive told you, it never has been and never will be fair.

Free trade is a dfferent matter. The UK already does some, it also operates in the circus that is the EU trading area.

 

[wanton dwarf]

You cant grasp the detail of what I am saying. You are complaining trade isnt fair. Ive told you, it never has been and never will be fair.

Free trade is a dfferent matter. The UK already does some, it also operates in the circus that is the EU trading area.

You can't have free trade and Liberal government.

Either drop the extreme Liberal policies or free trade will destroy everything other than the desk jobs.

 

[wanton dwarf]

And let's face it, the leave campaign was based on a fully fleshed out, fact based campaign! Anyway, I'm not interesting in points scoring on things like that. In seems that we are currently living in an age where true information doesn't hold much value.

Unlike @RobFZS I don't think that we are going to leave the EU without 'adjustments' in our economy and if there is I don't think that the political left will be willing to put it on the tab when there are 'wealthy' farmers and landowners that can be heavily taxed and subsidies cut.

So that is my prediction; if we leave the EU, it will be followed by a lerch to the political left who will be looking to take it out on the leave votes and their political enemies (rural tories).

@RobFZS you say that even plebs understand that farm subsidies = lower farm prices, but how exactly do you think that we are going to make free trade agreements with countries that have little farm subsidies in place, without cuts in our food production linked farm subsidies becoming a bargain chip? You seem to have a good understanding of potential post-Brexit economies (hence your claim that there won't be any adjustments in the economy). Genuinely interested, how you see us having a trade agreement with the USA, Canada, Australia etc, etc without production based farm subsidies being changed (reduced or removed).

I certainly didn't vote based on the campaign. I voted based on my observations of how the EU & HMG have destroyed the jobs & livelihoods of those around me.

GIven the fact TB has been used as a political football, flooding, drainage, food production, pesticides, rewilding etc have all been used to attack the rural Tory vote just when were you going to stand up and be counted ?

 

[ollie989898]

You can't have free trade and Liberal government.

Either drop the extreme Liberal policies or free trade will destroy everything other than the desk jobs.

Stop being chickenshit. Industries need access to 7 billion potential customers rather than 70 million. Its the same reason Trumps plans are ridiculous.

 

[wanton dwarf]

Stop being chickenshit. Industries need access to 7 billion potential customers rather than 70 million. Its the same reason Trumps plans are ridiculous.

What planet do you live on ?

You can't have a mushroom grower paying £70,000 in climate taxes and expect him to compete with imports that face none.

Get real .. either accept regulation & taxes have to change or abandon this Free Trade dogma one or the other.

The facts are USA jobs have melted under the current trade regimes in place .. Trump has brought them back and will bring back even more.

Facts Ollie not fantasies and dogma.

 

[phillipe]

What planet do you live on ?

You can't have a mushroom grower paying £70,000 in climate taxes and expect him to compete with imports that face none.

Get real .. either accept regulation & taxes have to change or abandon this Free Trade dogma one or the other.

The facts are USA jobs have melted under the current trade regimes in place .. Trump has brought them back and will bring back even more.

Facts Ollie not fantasies and dogma.

American jobs surge was the last headline i read

 

[RobFZS]

And let's face it, the leave campaign was based on a fully fleshed out, fact based campaign! Anyway, I'm not interesting in points scoring on things like that. In seems that we are currently living in an age where true information doesn't hold much value.

Unlike @RobFZS I don't think that we are going to leave the EU without 'adjustments' in our economy and if there is I don't think that the political left will be willing to put it on the tab when there are 'wealthy' farmers and landowners that can be heavily taxed and subsidies cut.

So that is my prediction; if we leave the EU, it will be followed by a lerch to the political left who will be looking to take it out on the leave votes and their political enemies (rural tories).

@RobFZS you say that even plebs understand that farm subsidies = lower farm prices, but how exactly do you think that we are going to make free trade agreements with countries that have little farm subsidies in place, without cuts in our food production linked farm subsidies becoming a bargain chip? You seem to have a good understanding of potential post-Brexit economies (hence your claim that there won't be any adjustments in the economy). Genuinely interested, how you see us having a trade agreement with the USA, Canada, Australia etc, etc without production based farm subsidies being changed (reduced or removed).

Well we already have a trade arrangement with Canada, while in the Eu, yet we have subs? explain that one?

Like i'll engage with you, but if you dont know the facts already, why should i bother? whataboutery is no good.

To have a trade deal with the US for example, we have to drop down borders on standards, meaning barriers go up with the Eu, it aint going to happen, not in this decade anyway and even then, trade deals are not soo clean cut, you think the EU or some other highly subsidised country is going to say nothing when we sign a seal with deal with a country of low subsidies? there is a reason NZ have been at the bottom of the pile, even if they can offer cheap food, the EU market doesnt want it and has restrictions on it making it here aswell.

PS, subs can go for all i care, they add nothing and subtract alot.

@little_p

 

[RobFZS]

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Yes, I think that the post-Brexit the voters will decide that May, Davis, Fox et al are 'no good' and will vote in another lot. And the other lots voters / influencers have a particular dislike of landowners.

And yes, very few people will give a damn about the subsidies for smallish scale farmers (which I assume the OP is)
farm subsidies when in national level trade agreement negotiations.

You're taking a minority issue and blowing it out of proportion to 'make the thicko farmers see sense and stop brexit'

Put it this way, when these subsidy haters see who makes in the most, the National Trust being one, are they going to be whinging at them? i doubt it, rational people see why we have subs, especially in this weather when farmers are towing people out, snow ploughing roads and doing the general community good.

When the crash came in 2007, they didn't come for the farmers subsidies, so what makes you think they will this time?

The left is dying all across Europe, they're not interested in economics, they're interested in trans rights, asylum seekers and equality for horses, whilst right wing parties across the continent are pushing them out and governing eventually we'll have another centre left party in power here, but they will be too far in the pockets of big business to touch subs.

 

[capfits]

Thinking of starting a political party looks like the UKIP has had its day and is toast. Will be sadly missed.
So I am for starting Pro United Kingdom and European (PUKE) so we we can get back into work with European neighbours aswell as fellow world citizens.





Sure it get the Brexiteers heaving when they cannot be blaming Brussels for all the world's ills.

 

[jendan]

Thinking of starting a political party looks like the UKIP has had its day and is toast. Will be sadly missed.
So I am for starting Pro United Kingdom and European (PUKE) so we we can get back into work with European neighbours aswell as fellow world citizens.





Sure it get the Brexiteers heaving when they cannot be blaming Brussels for all the world's ills.

The previous poster is the very man to lead it! He has been looking for a political party that shares his views for a good while.He can mould it in his own image

 

[czechmate]

The previous poster is the very man to lead it! He has been looking for a political party that shares his views for a good while.He can mould it in his own image

Is there a legal requirement to be an adult before you can lead a political party?

 

[capfits]

Is there a legal requirement to be an adult before you can lead a political party?

Doubt it or bojo would need have got as far as he got in Tory leadership...oh wait a minute.

 

[ollie989898]

What planet do you live on ?

You can't have a mushroom grower paying £70,000 in climate taxes and expect him to compete with imports that face none.

Get real .. either accept regulation & taxes have to change or abandon this Free Trade dogma one or the other.

The facts are USA jobs have melted under the current trade regimes in place .. Trump has brought them back and will bring back even more.

Facts Ollie not fantasies and dogma.

70K in climate taxes, what??

So you dont want free trade you want government interfering in free private enterprise, socialism central. All been tried and failed.

No such thing as fair trade, a Chinaman generates barely 7000 USD in GDP annually. An American generates over 50,000. Good luck competing with the former in low value sectors.

 

[wanton dwarf]

70K in climate taxes, what??

So you dont want free trade you want government interfering in free private enterprise, socialism central. All been tried and failed.

No such thing as fair trade, a Chinaman generates barely 7000 USD in GDP annually. An American generates over 50,000. Good luck competing with the former in low value sectors.

The government already interfers in private enterprise .. that IS my point. You cannot pretend regulation & climate taxes are anything other than intervention.

The new container port in London .. THAT is government intervention as is cross rail as is HS2 etc

Doesn't matter how cheap workers are in the UK or anywhere else if taxes and regulation take all the profit.

You're still trying to dodge the facts.

I'd also point out that some goods are just not viable for transportation .. the lower the value and the larger they are the less likely they can be transported.

 

[ollie989898]

If something is that low value it cant be imported that is fine. Thats market forces for you.

What exact point are you making?