A question for The Ruminant

[David_A]

How much dry matter have you been able to produce from cover crops? I am thinking from a livestock feeding point of view.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Its not a question to me I realise but if you are in Fife then I'd have thought the only chance of feeding anything any DM from a cover crop would be after Winter Barley. Anything else would be very vulnerable to being able to pay its way for grazing that year imv.

 

[David_A]

Thanks will, I agree. I didn't explain myself very well in OP. I was really meaning a summer cover crop.

 

[Pedders]

not a question to me either ...but what are you considering growing and when are you planning to plant it ?
people have had some very good results growing legumix a mix of legumes (peas tic beans vetch) and oats where winter crops have failed ..drilled may/June and harvested for silage in plenty of time for a decent crop of winter wheat to follow couldn't give exact DM yield but it was good ....

 

[martian]

not a question to me either ...but what are you considering growing and when are you planning to plant it ?
people have had some very good results growing legumix a mix of legumes (peas tic beans vetch) and oats where winter crops have failed ..drilled may/June and harvested for silage in plenty of time for a decent crop of winter wheat to follow couldn't give exact DM yield but it was good ....

A happy customer writes...

We tried Mr Pedders' Legumix last year behind a failed crop of something (can't remember just what) with a heavy blackgrass presence in the field. Drilled it at about this time of year, no fert or sprays and then strip grazed it with some bullocks who grew before our eyes. We were perhaps a bit slow getting animals in there as by the time they got to the end, the oats were nearly ripe and we ended up with a few volunteers coming through the bullock pats.

Cracking crop of wheat in there this year, hardly a BG plant to be seen, oats taken out by sprays easily enough. Cattle sold shortly after this in brilliant fettle.

 

[David_A]

Thanks Pedders, that is the most likely senario, hopefully without the preceding failed crop. Simply trying to gauge crop potential for a margin as well as a benefit to the soil. We are looking to integrate our own as well as other stock more into the arable rotation. We would want to keep it as a cash generator rather than a 'fallow' crop.
I simply assumed that the ruminant might have some figures.

 

[Clive]

@The Ruminant Tom might not have seen this

 

[Pedders]

Thanks Pedders, that is the most likely senario, hopefully without the preceding failed crop. Simply trying to gauge crop potential for a margin as well as a benefit to the soil. We are looking to integrate our own as well as other stock more into the arable rotation. We would want to keep it as a cash generator rather than a 'fallow' crop.
I simply assumed that the ruminant might have some figures.

its what we're looking to do too ....I don't think the information you're looking for is out there though .. ... realistically a short term grass ley will give you more DM/Ha ..annuals are better suited to the shoulders of the season allowing extended grazing ... I reckon by judicious use of grasses followed by annuals you should be be able to finish beef animals and get 1.0 -1.2 Kg dlw

 

[David_A]

Pedders, these are the basic conclusions that I had reached also. I was simply fishing to find out what else may be possible. The notion for the cover crop is simply to get away from grasses in the rotation, Perhaps herbal leys may provide something, as ever the search goes on. The only way to find out is to try a bit and see.

 

[Pedders]

herbal leys too expensive IMO ....short term italian ryegrass followed by annuals

 

[David_A]

As ever, the cheapest option, grass, already exists. Fancy crops carry too much cost for an unknown extra, if any, benefit.

 

[SilliamWhale]

As ever, the cheapest option, grass, already exists. Fancy crops carry too much cost for an unknown extra, if any, benefit.

I have used a few cover crops but I don't go over the top with them. Personally I'm trying to have 3 years grass and 8 years cropping. I can sell the grass for silage at a reasonable price and graze with sheep in the winter - its also valuable lieback for sheep on stubble turnips after winter barley. I also think it gives a break from roundup and helps brome control and long term hope to get better cereal yields.

It is quite hard to do when you attuned to wanting the combine to go through every field each year though. And of course it means for 3 years out of 11 (30% of the farm!) is under pasture! But I think its worth it but it would be harder if no one wanted the grass. It means a cover crop for spring cropping is only need once or twice in 11 years - and this has been oats, fodder radish or natural regen after spring barley.

And if you can get an IRG to last 3 good years this should be £10-15/acre in seed costs.

 

[Pedders]

I have used a few cover crops but I don't go over the top with them. Personally I'm trying to have 3 years grass and 8 years cropping. I can sell the grass for silage at a reasonable price and graze with sheep in the winter - its also valuable lieback for sheep on stubble turnips after winter barley. I also think it gives a break from roundup and helps brome control and long term hope to get better cereal yields.

It is quite hard to do when you attuned to wanting the combine to go through every field each year though. And of course it means for 3 years out of 11 (30% of the farm!) is under pasture! But I think its worth it but it would be harder if no one wanted the grass. It means a cover crop for spring cropping is only need once or twice in 11 years - and this has been oats, fodder radish or natural regen after spring barley.

And if you can get an IRG to last 3 good years this should be £10-15/acre in seed costs.

I'm going to try and go shorter ... I'm looking at a 12- 18 month italian ryegrass westerwolds ley very intensively grazed with the cattle moving onto annuals for autumn/ winter grazing in the second year before putting it back to cropping ...I don't want to have crops out of the arable rotation for too long ....

 

[SilliamWhale]

I'm going to try and go shorter ... I'm looking at a 12- 18 month italian ryegrass westerwolds ley very intensively grazed with the cattle moving onto annuals for autumn/ winter grazing in the second year before putting it back to cropping ...I don't want to have crops out of the arable rotation for too long ....

Good idea. Will be interested to see how that goes. But in a way the second year of grass should be cheaper than the first and it may give you better combinable crop yields. Maybe....

Also I think grass is better than osr so my aim is to keep the same amount of cereal output over the cycle. Maybe...

Maybe









Maybe









Maybe.......

 

[Great In Grass]

Would a mix of IRG with Crimson/Persian clover be of any interest? You could expect a 12% increase in yield (normally 14t DM/ha for IRG) over IRG and 7% more protein content (IRG normally 14%).

 

[Pedders]

Would a mix of IRG with Crimson/Persian clover be of any interest? You could expect a 12% increase in yield (normally 14t DM/ha for IRG) over IRG and 7% more protein content (IRG normally 14%).

it would and I'll be in touch ...how much per Ha would that be in comparison to the cheapest IRG ?

 

[Great In Grass]

it would and I'll be in touch ...how much per Ha would that be in comparison to the cheapest IRG ?

You know where I am.

If going the IRG/WW's route I'd be more inclined to replace the WW's with a hybrid ryegrass as Westerwolds don't particularly tiller well, a hybrid would give the ley a denser bottom important if it is to be predominately grazed.

 

[Pedders]

my aim is to keep the same amount of cereal output over the cycle. Maybe...

Thats exactly my aim too .....

 

[dontknowanything]

And if you can get an IRG to last 3 good years this should be £10-15/acre in seed costs.

My IRG ley from @Great In Grass cost I think £35/ha. (and it has vetch too)

 

[damaged]

Tetraploid IRG £1.70 kg.