A question not often asked

[le bon paysan]

I must admit, today I feel like a can't get shot of the bloody stuff fast enough!

More tomorrow.

 

[czechmate]

More tomorrow.

Bon

 

[Sharpy]

Would spiking with an areator to catch the water and allowing it to infiltrate help?

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Watched it this morning and it's that that got me thinking.

Infiltration is basically free, when you manage for it.
Sell your tillage equipment, run higher covers, more biodiversity...
Runoff is a man-made problem.
Natural ecosystems survive, where artificial ones fail, so it is a common issue wherever man has imposed his own design

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Oh and when planning cover mixtures, species with lower C:N ratios = legumes

Red clovers, chicory, peas.... with taller grasses e.g. fescues, cocksfoot
Forget fashion-grass.
Spring sown root crops...

 

[Dead Rabbits]

What Pete said. And possibly P.A Yeomans ? Surprised nobody had mentioned that yet.

 

[The Ruminant]

Infiltration is basically free, when you manage for it.
Sell your tillage equipment, run higher covers, more biodiversity...
Runoff is a man-made problem.
Natural ecosystems survive, where artificial ones fail, so it is a common issue wherever man has imposed his own design

Spot on. If you haven’t already then I’d strongly suggest @le bon paysan reads up about how organic matter can increase infiltration rates and the water holding capacity of soils. It’s quite eye-opening

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Spot on. If you haven’t already then I’d strongly suggest @le bon paysan reads up about how organic matter can increase infiltration rates and the water holding capacity of soils. It’s quite eye-opening

I always remember the sucking sound of our family farm as a small lad after a rain, and asked Dad why none of the neighbour's farms made that sound?

"They're too busy trying to make money off it, boyo" was his answer...
Also, how the drains would begin to run water the day before a rain came.

Small wonder I ended up maladjusted and doing all the wrong things...

Our soil here will infiltrate about 135mm per hour, once it's in there it stays put.
Same with carbon, why store it in a clamp or a bale when the soil is built for the job?

 

[Exfarmer]

I think something must have been lost in the translation

It was always difficult for a Lincolnshire man to understand people from Gloucester

 

[Kiwi Pete]

@Dead Rabbits bought up a really good point - @le bon paysan - have you ever investigated "the keyline system"

Basically, strategic contour "ripping" with his subsoil machine, a cross between a moleplough and deep subsoiler away from natural water collection points across the contour.
All the land on this place has been deep-ripped on the contour at some point, no real scope as far as water collection goes (reliable rainfall here too, normally)
And, trees, trees are nature's way of helping. Both as mineral pumps and as shade/shelter..
You may be able to get hold of his books or maybe online, not too sure, dad had the book and I devoured it as a youngster.
A man well ahead of his time, possibly the originator of permaculture really, strategic enhancement of the soil and natural land features.
Could well be of use to you, the climate is changing, and we need to position ourselves as best we can.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

What Pete said. And possibly P.A Yeomans ? Surprised nobody had mentioned that yet.

I was just thinking keyline water management

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I did a permaculture course, and I think permaculture originated building on keyline principles. Of course usually here in Wales, we end up with too much water, and wanting to get rid of it!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I was just thinking keyline water management

On the ball today
Rained yesterday, was too busy dancing in it in a singlet

 

[romneymarsh]

The Chinese were quite good at this sort of thing thousands of years ago . Terracing I think they call it !

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I did a permaculture course, and I think permaculture originated building on keyline principles. Of course usually here in Wales, we end up with too much water, and wanting to get rid of it!

It is similar down here, 940mm, but it does pull the farmer and the pasture into "shallow root syndrome" - when the pain comes on, it crashes, where as resilient farming practices are more to the fore now and in the future perhaps?
As a reasonable youngster with young kids likely to inherit, I am always looking for solutions.... most of them are to be found in 1965!!

 

[Kiwi Pete]

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Looks like a tree nursery is an investment...

As Dad would say, why buy what you can make?

Wonder if tree lucerne would be a beneficial species to look into for sunny France - flowers most of the year, great food for stock, legume...

 

[le bon paysan]

Earthing parallel to the stream?

@Kiwi Pete.....SSOOOOO yesterday.
Have run a grassland sub-soiler across the slopes.

 

[youngfarmer321]

I live on top of a hill where we get a lot of rain! We've dug 3 swales (contoured ditches) right round the hill top to slow the water (in our case to stop erosion) but it's really helped the ground, it gets the water to slow down. Instead of running off straight away taking our soil, it settles and refills whatever natural water reserves the ground has. We've noticed that when its dry you can look at the grass on the neighbors and see what the effect is. I know that in England you used to be able to get grants to build swales.....

 

[Danllan]

There is no doubting that increased organic matter will aid water retention but getting there - properly - is going to be long and hard. Dams needn't be as expensive as you might think, and there are other alternatives for bulk liquid storage, for use when in real need. I think gradient in your 'valley' is the biggest pain.

Obviously no problem with getting enough water here in Wales, but in Zim the first thing we'd do was quantify the amount of water needed, I saw your rain stat. but, if it's there, I missed the volume you actually need. Once you have that you need to work out what you can spend, nobody likes to shell out, but it's a profit cost at the end of the day, so if you have to do it, do it.