A question not often asked

[The Ruminant]

There is no doubting that increased organic matter will aid water retention but getting there - properly - is going to be long and hard. Dams needn't be as expensive as you might think, and there are other alternatives for bulk liquid storage, for use when in real need. I think gradient in your 'valley' is the biggest pain.

Obviously no problem with getting enough water here in Wales, but in Zim the first thing we'd do was quantify the amount of water needed, I saw your rain stat. but, if it's there, I missed the volume you actually need. Once you have that you need to work out what you can spend, nobody likes to shell out, but it's a profit cost at the end of the day, so if you have to do it, do it.

Would you expand on how to quantify the amount of water needed please. Sounds very interesting

 

[Danllan]

Would you expand on how to quantify the amount of water needed please. Sounds very interesting

Best getting a 'good' agronomist', probably , but... work out litres per hectare on the basis of what you want to grow, presumably grass in this case. Factor in how long you need to supplement it, evaporation and wastage + whatever % you want as a safety margin, from memory I think that was about 15%.

My uncle (in Zim), and others, had the experience to be able to do this by eye + fag packet calculations for the necessary dam capacity for a given area* - I wouldn't even think to do it myself without a fair amount of homework. But it is done where it has to be, so it can be done in this case too.

*Of the four dams he put in on his place, and he helped with lots of others, there wasn't one that fell short of holding enough water and, importantly, I don't know of any that had a huge over capacity either.

 

[Bury the Trash]

off topic but ......Is there any fluke problem at all in areas like this ?

 

[Danllan]

off topic but ......Is there any fluke problem at all in areas like this ?

Don't know about France, but I've no recollection of fluke being a problem in Zim but I do recall it being checked for by a local butcher, so perhaps we were more fortunate than others; worms and cocci' were treated for, we had problems with ticks too, sometimes. I guess that because it wasn't permanently wet, even to a small degree, fluke would have found it hard going.

 

[steveR]

Terracing.

See Inca, Mayan and similar civilisations, also lots of India and SE Asia. I can feel a "research" trip to Thailand and Vietnam coming off this Winter. S America soon after...

 

[exmoor dave]

I live on top of a hill where we get a lot of rain! We've dug 3 swales (contoured ditches) right round the hill top to slow the water (in our case to stop erosion) but it's really helped the ground, it gets the water to slow down. Instead of running off straight away taking our soil, it settles and refills whatever natural water reserves the ground has. We've noticed that when its dry you can look at the grass on the neighbors and see what the effect is. I know that in England you used to be able to get grants to build swales.....

That's really interesting
What sort of dimensions are the ditches?


We farm a steep dry farm, shallow sandy soil over rock.
holding on to moisture in the summer is abit of a issue!

 

[le bon paysan]

off topic but ......Is there any fluke problem at all in areas like this ?

We have fluke in the cattle but we are the fluke capital of France!

 

[phil]

I always remember the sucking sound of our family farm as a small lad after a rain, and asked Dad why none of the neighbour's farms made that sound?

"They're too busy trying to make money off it, boyo" was his answer...
Also, how the drains would begin to run water the day before a rain came.

Small wonder I ended up maladjusted and doing all the wrong things...

Our soil here will infiltrate about 135mm per hour, once it's in there it stays put.
Same with carbon, why store it in a clamp or a bale when the soil is built for the job?

Why/how did drains run before rain

 

[czechmate]

We have fluke in the cattle but we are the fluke capital of France!

You mean your farm or this region?
We never have bad fluke reports back from the abattoir

 

[czechmate]

For sure, the soil in this region is not strong. Even having an analysis of pasture land comes up short in OM on this farm. It dries out quickly through the spring, such that you can't put a fence post in after April/may, then its f**kin hot in July and August. So I don't believe any amount of irrigation would keep the grass growing in August. Plus of course, cows walking around on hot dry grass beats the life out of it even quicker.
On the other hand though...

Cows are still out

 

[bobk]

For sure, the soil in this region is not strong. Even having an analysis of pasture land comes up short in OM on this farm. It dries out quickly through the spring, such that you can't put a fence post in after April/may, then its fudgein hot in July and August. So I don't believe any amount of irrigation would keep the grass growing in August. Plus of course, cows walking around on hot dry grass beats the life out of it even quicker.
On the other hand though...

Cows are still out

We're happy tp get shut of the water asap . where... anywhere but here .

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Why/how did drains run before rain

Just changing pressure I think Phil.
Never really chased it up in these days of internet.. but the drop in atmospheric pressure as the high moves off, letting the soil aggregates move and the pores let go the water down in the subsoil?
Some would have been spring fed, the guys working a quarry overloaded a charge once and broke a lot of windows- started a lot of springs on surrounding farmland.

Now you've got me thinking, I shall find out

 

[youngfarmer321]

That's really interesting
What sort of dimensions are the ditches?


We farm a steep dry farm, shallow sandy soil over rock.
holding on to moisture in the summer is abit of a issue!

About 1 1/2 foot deep and probably 2 1/2 feet wide with the earth banked up on the down hill side (we also planted them with trees but works fine without). Ours are about 30m apart but spacings depend on how much you want to do! They go pretty much to the edge of our land both ways leaving space for a tractor.

We also put several small "bridges" with pipes under so we could drive over without going into the ditch!

Trouble is getting them flat and on the same level otherwise all the water runs into the lower parts!

 

[exmoor dave]

About 1 1/2 foot deep and probably 2 1/2 feet wide with the earth banked up on the down hill side (we also planted them with trees but works fine without). Ours are about 30m apart but spacings depend on how much you want to do! They go pretty much to the edge of our land both ways leaving space for a tractor.

We also put several small "bridges" with pipes under so we could drive over without going into the ditch!

Trouble is getting them flat and on the same level otherwise all the water runs into the lower parts!

Thanks that'd fascinating

We've got alot of old water meadow leats, mostly filled in but just visible, the fall on them is literally the bare minimum to move the water, but basically they follow the contours.

I've always wondered how they dug them so accurately a good few hundred years ago.

 

[phil]

Thanks that'd fascinating

We've got alot of old water meadow leats, mostly filled in but just visible, the fall on them is literally the bare minimum to move the water, but basically they follow the contours.

I've always wondered how they dug them so accurately a good few hundred years ago.

any pictures

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Why/how did drains run before rain

I found out...
I was right, infiltration rate increases with decreasing atmospheric pressure; but that works two ways, as it also raises the water table.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022169411000655



I like questions...

 

[joe soapy]

Lots of places in the US are contour farmed.
Increasing potash also helps water translocation in plants