AB15 2 year legume fallow

[Fat hen]

Can someone quickly clarify something for me before I let my thoughts develop any more.
I really like the idea of putting a large chunk of the farm into AB15.
Just to clarify though.
On 100Ha can I;
2021 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2022 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2023 WW on the whole 100Ha (no other AB15 anywhere)
2024 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2025 AB15 on the whole 100Ha

If so then i am receiving £522/ha x 5 = £2610/Ha over 5 years and I can grow a WW with a margin of £700/Ha (or whatever) as well in year 3?

This is how I understand the current rules, to which i have also signed up for in a big way:

2021 Crop til Aug then AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2022 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2023 AB15 terminated in Aug then established on same or other 100ha
2024 AB15 on the whole 100Ha
2025 AB15 on the whole 100Ha, terminate in Aug

Don't quote me on it but my advisor said the above. Previous years of AB15 rules differed.

 

[Fat hen]

I can grow a WW with a margin of £700/Ha

Blimey you must get some top yields! What tonnage do you get per ha?

 

[Against_the_grain]

Blimey you must get some top yields! What tonnage do you get per ha?

£700 Gm is not impossible to achieve?
So we do have to have the same amount of AB15 growing somewhere in year 3 when that 100Ha block is in WW?
What you seem to be achieving with AB15 looks very appealing!

 

[Fat hen]

£700 Gm is not impossible to achieve?
So we do have to have the same amount of AB15 growing somewhere in year 3 when that 100Ha block is in WW?
What you seem to be achieving with AB15 looks very appealing!

Yep you must establish AB15 on 100ha in year 3. Year 1 is your double whammy year - crop+ab15
Its not often I get 700/ha, it would be a vg year. This year's profit was puny, for example.

Its excellent for no-till, the soil structure, Carbon content and for the bank balance. There is NO WAY I could average circa 175/ac profit every year for 5 years across the farm. I've put the whole farm into the scheme.

 

[Against_the_grain]

So if for example you wanted to put a whole farm into AB15 you would stagger it in 3 stages to allow for 33% of the farm to be cash cropped/year

	33Ha	33Ha	33Ha
2021	AB15	WW	OSR
2022	AB15	AB15	WW
2023	WW	AB15	AB15
2024	AB15	WW	AB15
2025	AB15	AB15	WW

 

[Against_the_grain]

Yep you must establish AB15 on 100ha in year 3. Year 1 is your double whammy year - crop+ab15
Its not often I get 700/ha, it would be a vg year. This year's profit was puny, for example.

Its excellent for no-till, the soil structure, Carbon content and for the bank balance. There is NO WAY I could average circa 175/ac profit every year for 5 years across the farm. I've put the whole farm into the scheme.

Agree that its not possible every year hence the interest in CS. Should be possible after a 2year legume though Direct Drilled.
Only fear is ELMS and commiting to a scheme just to have to potentially adjust it all to fit in with whatever that brings.
Also very appealing on machinery requirements and lifestyle point of view. I imagine it would reduce labour requirement as well as lots of other hidden benefits to fixed costs.

 

[Hindsight]

So if for example you wanted to put a whole farm into AB15 you would stagger it in 3 stages to allow for 33% of the farm to be cash cropped/year

	33Ha	33Ha	33Ha
2021	AB15	WW	OSR
2022	AB15	AB15	WW
2023	WW	AB15	AB15
2024	AB15	WW	AB15
2025	AB15	AB15	WW

But you cannot stagger entry, can you?. The amount signed up for is established in Sept of first year. And repeated three years later - when it can be rotated to another block of land (or left in situ - though I though there was some debate about that?)

 

[Against_the_grain]

But you cannot stagger entry, can you?. The amount signed up for is established in Sept of first year. And repeated three years later - when it can be rotated to another block of land (or left in situ - though I though there was some debate about that?)

You would have to have three different agreements i would of thought. But seems silly to have to be all or nothing

 

[Cropwell]

Another thing to consider is that unless you are on nice easy working and well drained land it is a bit risky trying to establish AB15 after wheat. ( I know, I've got the tee shirt )

 

[B'o'B]

You would have to have three different agreements i would of thought. But seems silly to have to be all or nothing

I'm pretty sure you can't have different agreements running in parallel on the same holding. I split the farm 50/50 so half the farm AB15 other half cropped for two years, then swap over.

 

[B'o'B]

Another thing to consider is that unless you are on nice easy working and well drained land it is a bit risky trying to establish AB15 after wheat. ( I know, I've got the tee shirt )

From my experience this autumn the earlier the better for AB15 establishment, even just a week between the start and finish of establishment can be seen in the fields now.
Edit - That is with the old mix

 

[Against_the_grain]

I'm pretty sure you can't have different agreements running in parallel on the same holding. I split the farm 50/50 so half the farm AB15 other half cropped for two years, then swap over.

But how does that work on a three/five year cycle?

 

[Against_the_grain]

We are very early here. It would be unusual not to be finished WW by the 18th August, usually a week earlier than that.

 

[B'o'B]

First year all cropped but you get the bonus of AB15 payment on half the farm. Then 50% on the farm in AB15 for 2 years, followed by the other half for 2 years makes your 5 years. Essentially it a quirk of the system with AB15 that you get 5 years payment for 4 years fallow.

 

[Against_the_grain]

I'm with you. Thanks all for the guidance @B'o'B @Fat hen @Hindsight @Cropwell . @B'o'B do you enjoy having 50% of the farm down to it? Must make life a lot easier/ reduce machinery costs fairly. Is it more profitable? Its certainly less risky

 

[B'o'B]

I'm with you. Thanks all for the guidance @B'o'B @Fat hen @Hindsight @Cropwell . @B'o'B do you enjoy having 50% of the farm down to it? Must make life a lot easier/ reduce machinery costs fairly. Is it more profitable? Its certainly less risky

I've only just put the AB15 in for the first time this autumn, so it's a bit early to say! As things stand I'm glad I'm in the scheme, its enabled me to drop rape and linseed from the rotation. Linseed had just been filling a hole in the rotation for some years and rape had become a lottery. I am also hoping it will allow me to spend some extra time with the kids as they grow up and take an objective look at where to take the business forward when we find out where we are all heading.

 

[DRC]

The big question is, are you getting paid in ontime?
I am very interested in doing some as a break on heavy land, but as a tenant, would need paying in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[B'o'B]

The big question is, are you getting paid in ontime?
I am very interested in doing some as a break on heavy land, but as a tenant, would need paying in a reasonable timeframe.

Payment was in the bank in the 1st week of December this time, hopefully they will be able to keep up to that sort of standard going forward, but only time will tell!

 

[Andy26]

From my experience this autumn the earlier the better for AB15 establishment, even just a week between the start and finish of establishment can be seen in the fields now.
Edit - That is with the old mix

Would you drill AB15 in July if possible?

 

[DRC]

Who grows the seed for all these mixes . Surprised they can cope.