AB15 2 year legume fallow

[Feldspar]

We talking about AB6? Haven't used that option on our farm, but think you're not supposed to pre-harvest glyphosate. Or did I misunderstand what you were meaning?

You can't do pre-harvest, but you can spray off grassweeds from mid May onwards which in my experience is early enough to stop viable seed.

 

[Hindsight]

I know it's not a big yield robber, but it's annoyingly difficult to kill in wheat. Like Broadway / Palio doesn't kill it (found that out last year), nor does Atlantis, and it just seems to continue to germinate through the season. Isn't killed by the old favourites like CMPP and Starane. Metsulfuron will do it, but struggles a bit when it's big. I ended up putting two doses of metsulfuron and Palio last year in some fields. Not a big expense, just a pain. Zypar is my backup option I think.

Autumn control. In old days would add low dose lexus to flufanacet mixes. CTU controld it. I get it in early sown wheat on silts. treat with low dose florasulam in November, 50 ml hectare. then spring germinators are small and tribenuron and florasulam will do job. Ask your agronomist.

 

[teslacoils]

We talking about AB6? Haven't used that option on our farm, but think you're not supposed to pre-harvest glyphosate. Or did I misunderstand what you were meaning?

Sorry, not pre harvest glypho. I'm thinking about spring herbicude which I think was may 16th or something random.

 

[teslacoils]

Autumn control. In old days would add low dose lexus to flufanacet mixes. CTU controld it. I get it in early sown wheat on silts. treat with low dose florasulam in November, 50 ml hectare. then spring germinators are small and tribenuron and florasulam will do job. Ask your agronomist.

Yes, a spring Luxus a like used to do the job.

 

[Clive]

Hold on? wheat is £220 and you're thinking of setting the farm aside?
what happened to your idea of growing a crop with zero inputs to achieve say 7 t/ha?

wheat is that price now

urea is well over £700-750/t and glyphosate has tripled in price ................. and lets not even consider machinery prices, fuel and electricity inevitable wage rises etc


I wouldn't get to carried away with the current wheat prices - I doubt they are a new normal sadly despite needing them juts to stand still right now

growing 7t without inputs maybe possible if the previous crop was a fertility building cover crop ?

 

[Flat 10]

I know it's not a big yield robber, but it's annoyingly difficult to kill in wheat. Like Broadway / Palio doesn't kill it (found that out last year), nor does Atlantis, and it just seems to continue to germinate through the season. Isn't killed by the old favourites like CMPP and Starane. Metsulfuron will do it, but struggles a bit when it's big. I ended up putting two doses of metsulfuron and Palio last year in some fields. Not a big expense, just a pain. Zypar is my backup option I think. Ultimately it won't stop me doing what I'm doing again though.

There's a thread on this currently and i started one some years ago. You need tribenuron and other suggestions include mcpa and shield as partners.

 

[Hindsight]

There's a thread on this currently and i started one some years ago. You need tribenuron and other suggestions include mcpa and shield as partners.

Tribenuron yes. But do not forget Florasulam - has very useful activity. CTU as in Tower useful but as a pre emergnce or early post emergence active. Maybe awkward to fit in to a herbicide programme and expensive. If using hormons it is the Dicamba active that really broadens control and add markedly to CMPP, MCPA. I wrote earlier in this thread that I do come across Groundsel on light silt soils and when wheat is sown early (Sept/early Oct) aim to apply low dose florasuam (50ml/ha) in autumn (Nov/Dec) as it prevents the larger plants overwintering. Used to add low dose Lexus - sadly now no longer. And I apply florasulam with the T0, end March. But each to their own.

 

[yellow belly]

All those hopping to use ab6 as a break should think again

when we had wheat steadied sprayed off in May
it did reduce the black grass but at a high cost
yield of wheat after set aside was at best similar to continuous wheat and at worst full of takeall and drowned out in a wet year
the drain ran at the first aurumn rain and the fields were at field capacity for most of the winter
or after early ploughing ( to mitigate the wet year ) it dried out in a dry year and struggled to establish in a dry seed bed

takeall was visible where there were volunteers sprayed off in May

heavy land got heavier and wetter with out a cover in May and June took 5 years to recover and get structure back into the soil

 

[Feldspar]

All those hopping to use ab6 as a break should think again

when we had wheat steadied sprayed off in May
it did reduce the black grass but at a high cost
yield of wheat after set aside was at best similar to continuous wheat and at worst full of takeall and drowned out in a wet year
the drain ran at the first aurumn rain and the fields were at field capacity for most of the winter
or after early ploughing ( to mitigate the wet year ) it dried out in a dry year and struggled to establish in a dry seed bed

takeall was visible where there were volunteers sprayed off in May

heavy land got heavier and wetter with out a cover in May and June took 5 years to recover and get structure back into the soil

That's a very useful set of thoughts. I have received conflicting views on whether to consider the wheat after wheat stubble as a 1st wheat or a 3rd wheat. On the soil structure point of view, we did quite a lot of moling and then max tillage following the stubble this year. First year without a really wet autumn and I would say we're not seeing really worrying waterlogging over 90-95% of the area. Do you think putting a cover crop in in middle of May following glyphosate would help much with the structure question? Could it also help the take-all (that might be a stupid question as I don't know lots about take-all)?

 

[BenAdamsAgri]

That's a very useful set of thoughts. I have received conflicting views on whether to consider the wheat after wheat stubble as a 1st wheat or a 3rd wheat. On the soil structure point of view, we did quite a lot of moling and then max tillage following the stubble this year. First year without a really wet autumn and I would say we're not seeing really worrying waterlogging over 90-95% of the area. Do you think putting a cover crop in in middle of May following glyphosate would help much with the structure question? Could it also help the take-all (that might be a stupid question as I don't know lots about take-all)?

Thats what puts me off AB6 be alot more beneficial with a summer cover. Soil tends to go quite sad otherwise. Oats and mustard good for take-all reduction

 

[yellow belly]

That's a very useful set of thoughts. I have received conflicting views on whether to consider the wheat after wheat stubble as a 1st wheat or a 3rd wheat. On the soil structure point of view, we did quite a lot of moling and then max tillage following the stubble this year. First year without a really wet autumn and I would say we're not seeing really worrying waterlogging over 90-95% of the area. Do you think putting a cover crop in in middle of May following glyphosate would help much with the structure question? Could it also help the take-all (that might be a stupid question as I don't know lots about take-all)?

I reported what I found in the set aside years
take all showed up bad where there were high numbers of volunteeres over the winter

on freer draining land the problems of a wet summer followed by early rains in October could be less than we had here
but imho that sort of land should be cropped and has lower risk of a negative margin crop

now I farm notill the costs of cropping are much lower lower income crops make a margin and maintain he soil
making good years more profitable

I am still likely to use mid tier options to take out the lowest yielding land which never makes a profit over operating costs

 

[Grass And Grain]

I reported what I found in the set aside years
take all showed up bad where there were high numbers of volunteeres over the winter

on freer draining land the problems of a wet summer followed by early rains in October could be less than we had here
but imho that sort of land should be cropped and has lower risk of a negative margin crop

now I farm notill the costs of cropping are much lower lower income crops make a margin and maintain he soil
making good years more profitable

I am still likely to use mid tier options to take out the lowest yielding land which never makes a profit over operating costs

I've found AB11 to be OK. Spray off if there are any cereal volunteers, lightly cultivate end of March, let weeds provide a cover, chop in September.
No good if you suffer from certain weeds, and surprising where ragwort and thistles can come from. Would he better with a cover, so I might sprinkle a bit of cc seed on after cereal harvest, then lightly cultivate in spring (hoping a bit of the cc survives).

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I've found AB11 to be OK. Spray off if there are any cereal volunteers, lightly cultivate end of March, let weeds provide a cover, chop in September.
No good if you suffer from certain weeds, and surprising where ragwort and thistles can come from. Would he better with a cover, so I might sprinkle a bit of cc seed on after cereal harvest, then lightly cultivate in spring (hoping a bit of the cc survives).

I would burn off late spring and if you're allowed to cultivate, then I would chuck a bit of cheap seed on like linseed, mustard, buckwheat maybe and some kind of legume to get some free n. Better than ragwort and thistles.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I would burn off late spring and if you're allowed to cultivate, then I would chuck a bit of cheap seed on like linseed, mustard, buckwheat maybe and some kind of legume to get some free n. Better than ragwort and thistles.

Not allowed to put see seed on in spring. At least, don't think you can. Option is supposed to let corn marigolds grow in spring.

Thankfully I've resisted tack sheep for a good few years, so shouldn't be any thistle seeds imported in hay bales, although ragwort has blown through the hedge from neighbours stewardship field

 

[Peter Hitchcock]

All those hopping to use ab6 as a break should think again

when we had wheat steadied sprayed off in May
it did reduce the black grass but at a high cost
yield of wheat after set aside was at best similar to continuous wheat and at worst full of takeall and drowned out in a wet year
the drain ran at the first aurumn rain and the fields were at field capacity for most of the winter
or after early ploughing ( to mitigate the wet year ) it dried out in a dry year and struggled to establish in a dry seed bed

takeall was visible where there were volunteers sprayed off in May

heavy land got heavier and wetter with out a cover in May and June took 5 years to recover and get structure back into the soil

I've found exactly the same. The Wheat we have this year after AB6 has been waterlogged since October and full of takeall. The way it looks at the moment, I think we will be lucky to get 7t/ha.

 

[teslacoils]

My ab6 last year was after spring oats. This year's wheat after it currently looks "the tits".

 

[Flat 10]

I've found exactly the same. The Wheat we have this year after AB6 has been waterlogged since October and full of takeall. The way it looks at the moment, I think we will be lucky to get 7t/ha.

Mine looks very damp too. How do you know it has take all now?

 

[yellow belly]

There is a big difference between oats and wheat as the previous crop
after the oats fb ab6 an early crop of wheat would be takeall free but early planted wheat fb ab6 would be at high risk of takeall

 

[teslacoils]

There is a big difference between oats and wheat as the previous crop
after the oats fb ab6 an early crop of wheat would be takeall free but early planted wheat fb ab6 would be at high risk of takeall

Indeed. But possibly the waterlogging would still be an issue? My volunteer oats were nuked by the frosts, and the field was mole ploughed as soon as the stubble period ended.

 

[Flat 10]

There is a big difference between oats and wheat as the previous crop
after the oats fb ab6 an early crop of wheat would be takeall free but early planted wheat fb ab6 would be at high risk of takeall

Even if destroyed in may 15th?