AB15 2 year legume fallow

[Cutlerstom]

Be careful with that, as if your seen to have run on the headlands with your drill tractor, it’ll be seen as not sticking to the rules, with potentially non payment .

The rules state you cannot use them for access strips or thoroughfares. Turning with drill sensibly once wont trash it, and doesnt violate the rules. Ill leave the headland trams in place and use them to turn sprayer/spinner in and only claim 13m from the 15m width. Ive checked this with them and they say its ok.

 

[Hindsight]

I can understand that . It was only seeing the payments debacle that stopped me accepting the two mid tier offers I’ve had. Looked a good decision in the dry year when wheat hit £200 ton, but this year I maybe wish half the farm was in mid tier. Although if I’d gone into it, and the legume mix had failed due to the wet weather , would they have paid out or not ?

Yes, as unless have an inspection they wouldn't know and provided have seed on farm and an invoice dated nicely before Sept 7 and a diary entry dated say December 14 acknowleging failure and intention to re-establish then I feel one should be OK. But I stress who the hell am I to say that?! I am not an RPA inspector I just asssume common sense - which is the tosh one hears from Gove Eustace etc, but goodness knows if RPA would be that sensible - in or out of the EU. As Spin Cycle alluded, with quite cruel perception, if it fails why should you get paid.

 

[yellow belly]

My experience with establishing options is not to do it early ie for spring planting May is better than April for wild bird seed and nector mix this gives time of wet land to dry out and for a proper fine seedbed with out puddling
later spring planting in drier conditions avoids slugs and weeds without using any products
in farming we have planted earlier to get a higher yield and over the last 40 years had products that control weeds and pests this goes against what we have done as farmers so patience is needed

when being inspected it is most importent to have the area on the ground in the option on the agreement in each parcel
still waiting for the inspection report for mid tier inspection carried out last summer

when you go online to look for the rules for each option the latest ones are found easiest the inspector
does the inspector use the online system or do they have a copy of your aplication at the time
I know they do not always have the claim you make each May if it is made on paper

I learnt from the inspection if you have rotaational options in a number of fields you can only claim for the exact amount in the aplication
when they inspect if you under declare on whole parcels the inspector accepts you declared area on each parcel without measuring each one you will have more on the ground but they do not measure it but they will not comeback if when they calculate the final areas and find you are under area
you will have one parcel which has makes the total match with the aplication make this field one that has more than one option so they have to measure it. When they measure it they find extra area which they can offset against any field that is short on area an example is you may have parts that do not establish well enough but there is no facility on the claim to add extra for insurance as there was with els points

 

[Northern territory]

Is it really going to be that lucrative unless you are big enough to put 200 ha down. Surely the land has to make double with the loss of bps and any crop on a ha by ha basis. I am tempted on a small farm to get involved but the options are peanuts in reality, we have a good lump of pp that was on low inputs in previous els scheme but all this sward height on 20% or something is quite restrictive.

 

[teslacoils]

I thought my legume fallow was going to be bobbins in its second year as it was too wet to top in September and all went flat and black. But been on it today and it's going to be a clover paradise. Got a pair of barn owls hunting on it too.

 

[Feldspar]

Is it really going to be that lucrative unless you are big enough to put 200 ha down. Surely the land has to make double with the loss of bps and any crop on a ha by ha basis. I am tempted on a small farm to get involved but the options are peanuts in reality, we have a good lump of pp that was on low inputs in previous els scheme but all this sward height on 20% or something is quite restrictive.

Basically all these environmental payment rates only look attractive if businesses trim their fixed costs down to account for the fact that there's less work to do. If you still ascribe £500/ha fixed costs over them then none of them stack up. We are apportioning only £100/ha of fixed costs over our fallows.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

Basically all these environmental payment rates only look attractive if businesses trim their fixed costs down to account for the fact that there's less work to do. If you still ascribe £500/ha fixed costs over them then none of them stack up. We are apportioning only £100/ha of fixed costs over our fallows.

This is the problem going forward. Current payment rates are just ok in certain fields/part fields/rotational positions with BPS, but to pay rent for the land in the future at these scheme rates with little or no BPS it is not really viable in most situations. I hoped that environmental rates may have increased (mid/higher tier) for future years to encourage people to join and mitigate BPS loses, but it appears not.

 

[Northern territory]

This is the problem going forward. Current payment rates are just ok in certain fields/part fields/rotational positions with BPS, but to pay rent for the land in the future at these scheme rates with little or no BPS it is not really viable in most situations. I hoped that environmental rates may have increased (mid/higher tier) for future years to encourage people to join and mitigate BPS loses, but it appears not.

I think the big transition is bps covered every ha whereas this covers the land you decide to put in only, also at a cost, with failure in some years a distinct possibility. It is a really tricky one and very thought provoking.

 

[Feldspar]

This is the problem going forward. Current payment rates are just ok in certain fields/part fields/rotational positions with BPS, but to pay rent for the land in the future at these scheme rates with little or no BPS it is not really viable in most situations. I hoped that environmental rates may have increased (mid/higher tier) for future years to encourage people to join and mitigate BPS loses, but it appears not.

I think really the base case for planning is your business at the moment but without BPS. You might swap between environmental and cropping profit, with the former giving perhaps a similar profit but with smaller turnover and the latter a higher turnover. But essentially there will be a big hole where the BPS cheque used to be, and that is going to take some getting used to.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

I think the big transition is bps covered every ha whereas this covers the land you decide to put in only, also at a cost, with failure in some years a distinct possibility. It is a really tricky one and very thought provoking.

Our mid tier is in the last year. It has been beneficial for wildlife, and diversified income a little, but as for rolling it over another year, applying for another five years, or not continuing, I really don't know. Payments have been painfully slow, and constantly changing payment windows have not helped, along with the constant threat of an inspection and possible penalties to all payments. The rates for the next five years should be higher.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

I think really the base case for planning is your business at the moment but without BPS. You might swap between environmental and cropping profit, with the former giving perhaps a similar profit but with smaller turnover and the latter a higher turnover. But essentially there will be a big hole where the BPS cheque used to be, and that is going to take some getting used to.

The hole is going to need filling with cost savings as well, particularly rent reductions, but I am unsure how easily this will be achieved.

 

[Neddy flanders]

im guessing you cant have a legume fallow and beans or peas in the same rotation due to similar hosts for footrots etc?

 

[teslacoils]

im guessing you cant have a legume fallow and beans or peas in the same rotation due to similar hosts for footrots etc?

Would depend on the gap I suppose. I aim to follow mine with winter barley, or wheat if we are delayed getting the crop off. Wouldn't be a pulse for five years.

 

[Hindsight]

im guessing you cant have a legume fallow and beans or peas in the same rotation due to similar hosts for footrots etc?

Have a word with staff at PGRO - only up the road from you. Leah is plant pathologist. You pay levy.

 

[farmerm]

Our mid tier is in the last year. It has been beneficial for wildlife, and diversified income a little, but as for rolling it over another year, applying for another five years, or not continuing, I really don't know. Payments have been painfully slow, and constantly changing payment windows have not helped, along with the constant threat of an inspection and possible penalties to all payments. The rates for the next five years should be higher.

I am in the same boat. I think a fresh 5 year deal is probably the way to go. A one year roll over is little use as I have the cost of re-establishing nectar pollen areas and we could find a hole at the end of the year if another rollover isn't on offer given that we will not see ELMs before 2024... if ELMS is better we are told we can choose to rip up our 5 year mid-tier agreement Whilst payment timing have been unpredictable the money will appear eventually so I just ignore it in my cashflow forecast until it appears! My ELS grass margins will earn me a lot more this year than land fallowed because it has been too wet to crop! To support our business to the same level as BPS has ELMS need to be paying 4x the rates that Mid-Tier offers! I will be compelled to expand on our existing agreement with a bit of wild bird food but the question is just how deep to go...

Anyone considering AB15 followed by AB15 for the whole farm and just buying a big topper? 4 years fertility building with just 2 autumn establishments costs and a couple of passes with the topper each year... Sure with wheat at £150/tonne+ it £211/ac perhaps doesn't look so attractive but lets not forget, not long ago we were selling wheat below £110/tonne... who says we wont be in 2022-23? remember too the opportunity costs of growing wheat.... you can let out the grain store and all the money normally tied up in fertiliser, chemicals and combine can be put to other use, no stress about the weather (baring at establishment), no worries about weeds, pests and diseases, grain drying, grain marketing... And so much free time to invest in other enterprises or have a gap year and travel the world... What's not to like?

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

I am in the same boat. I think a fresh 5 year deal is probably the way to go. A one year roll over is little use as I have the cost of re-establishing nectar pollen areas and we could find a hole at the end of the year if another rollover isn't on offer given that we will not see ELMs before 2024... if ELMS is better we are told we can choose to rip up our 5 year mid-tier agreement Whilst payment timing have been unpredictable the money will appear eventually so I just ignore it in my cashflow forecast until it appears! My ELS grass margins will earn me a lot more this year than land fallowed because it has been too wet to crop! To support our business to the same level as BPS has ELMS need to be paying 4x the rates that Mid-Tier offers! I will be compelled to expand on our existing agreement with a bit of wild bird food but the question is just how deep to go...

Anyone considering AB15 followed by AB15 for the whole farm and just buying a big topper? 4 years fertility building with just 2 autumn establishments costs and a couple of passes with the topper each year... Sure with wheat at £150/tonne+ it £211/ac perhaps doesn't look so attractive but lets not forget, not long ago we were selling wheat below £110/tonne... who says we wont be in 2022-23? remember too the opportunity costs of growing wheat.... you can let out the grain store and all the money normally tied up in fertiliser, chemicals and combine can be put to other use, no stress about the weather (baring at establishment), no worries about weeds, pests and diseases, grain drying, grain marketing... And so much free time to invest in other enterprises or have a gap year and travel the world... What's not to like?

Being an FBT tenant makes it a more difficult decision, but I tend to agree a one year roll over is neither here nor there. Another 5 year agreement or out at the end of the year. It is a gamble as to what the profitability of cropping and stock is going to be over the next 5 years compared to fixed rates for mid-tier. Things do not look great at the minute, but can quickly change, usually due to unforeseen events. Mid tier capital works could swing it, but many are hard to justify on an FBT. I can see the attraction of large scale mid tier on farms that can get rid of machinery, use contractors for the reduced operations, and "retire to mid tier", especially if the farm is owned.

 

[yellow belly]

The ab 15 option I did not consider when I aplied a couple of years ago
but with crop failures with rape and the unreliability of beans I would now consider 25 % of the farm in this option
reduce machinery and labour costs by extending the life of current tractors drill and combine and going more part time
my experience with wheat following a clover rich ley if it is the best yielding crop
one calculation doubles the payments from the Rpa compared with the current year

 

[teslacoils]

Starting to grow again.

 

[Great In Grass]

Starting to grow again.

Did it get a drop of rain last night?

 

[teslacoils]

Did it get a drop of rain last night?

Tiny bit. Moisture not a problem on that land. But you can see the weather beat us in flailing it pre winter. A lot of old residue which apparently is good for the soil, but also a lot of slugs and loads of mice! Owls love hunting over it.