aberfield sheep

[Zak5465]

We found Aberfield crosses seemed to be more difficult to lamb than our Highlander crosses, seemed smaller pelvis.

There are a few left however we have stopped breeding them because of various issues including lower lambing percentage.

Thanks for reply, I think this must be the case here, some of the lambs are normal size but they all need help. I tried a few of these for easier lambing and low maintenance, doesn't seem the case.

 

[Sheepfog]

e the electric and heat your going to go 32/64/80/96 bird systems

Hi everyone,
Just had my first experience with aberfield X penderyn Welsh yearlings lambing to texels. So far it's been a nightmare, Lambs are way too big, had to pull all of them, it's like the ewes are not mature enough, plenty of milk, good want to be mothering. Have not been overfed, winter tack on pasture. I weighed one lamb at 7.1kg, the reason for trying the aberfield was for low maintenance and easy outdoor lambing, but this is not the case. Have I made a mistake putting texels on them as yearlings, most of the twins are normal size but need assistance. Any suggestions of what ram to use on yearlings. Most of the texel rams we use are of the commercial type and not the cabbage heads. Just really disappointed with the aberfield performance, or and they are wild as folk....

We run some out of tregaron welsh put to the char, lambed on rough ground for shelter, hardly pull any, very happy with them , scan around 175. We had more issues with welsh singles, more to do with the dry weather and sun last week i think, theyve come better since the rain. Now for the plug.... Will have some hoggs with lambs at foot to sell in a months time or ewe lambs in september if anybody is interested...

I have some Aberfield ewes out of Tregaron welsh, which I put to fine boned UK Suffolks (that I breed myself) and they are an absolute dream to lamb outdoors. Would average 180%, almost all lamb themselves and are great mothers.

@Zak5465 It sounds like you've been unlucky with your batch of ewes and/or tup.

 

[Nithsdale]

Thanks for reply, I think this must be the case here, some of the lambs are normal size but they all need help. I tried a few of these for easier lambing and low maintenance, doesn't seem the case.

This is what really grates with me about the shitty way Innovis sell their tups...
You've got to pay a hell of a lot even just to try one. Big gamble to pay £600 (minimum) on a tup that turns out doesn't work out for you/your ewes

 

[d-wales]

The nutrition of the ewe over the past 3 months will have more influence on the size of lambs than what ram was used.

Ram choice would influence shape of lamb. Aberfield ram has blue faced Leicester influence in its dna so "should" be easier lambing than some of the more stocky rams.

Every time I have a bad day with stolen heads or other problems I think "why didn't I put a Welsh ram over them"
Those extra lambs would easily cover the reduction on price per finished lamb

 

[Tsa115]

Chi

This is what really grates with me about the shitty way Innovis sell their tups...
You've got to pay a hell of a lot even just to try one. Big gamble to pay £600 (minimum) on a tup that turns out doesn't work out for you/your ewes

Been using them for 6 7 years now, happy enough with the aberfields as a breed on welsh ewes but since them having multiplier farms and increasing numbers the rams are not what they were for lasting, although they say they cull very hard. They used to last well but getting an expensive hobby now.

 

[exmoorromney]

Thanks for reply, I think this must be the case here, some of the lambs are normal size but they all need help. I tried a few of these for easier lambing and low maintenance, doesn't seem the case.

Aberfields have never been promoted for using on ewe lambs as far as I know, I certainly wouldn't put one on ewe lambs. Out of interest were your rams bought through Innovis? There are a lot of people calling any old Texel cross BFL or BFL Cross Texel an Aberfield.

 

[unlacedgecko]

This is what really grates with me about the shitty way Innovis sell their tups...
You've got to pay a hell of a lot even just to try one. Big gamble to pay £600 (minimum) on a tup that turns out doesn't work out for you/your ewes

Genuine question, how much do you think a maternal ram should be?

Bearing in mind he could have direct daughters in the flock for a decade.

 

[neilo]

The nutrition of the ewe over the past 3 months will have more influence on the size of lambs than what ram was used.

Ram choice would influence shape of lamb. Aberfield ram has blue faced Leicester influence in its dna so "should" be easier lambing than some of the more stocky rams.

Every time I have a bad day with stolen heads or other problems I think "why didn't I put a Welsh ram over them"
Those extra lambs would easily cover the reduction on price per finished lamb

Whilst nutritional management (I would suggest over the last couple of weeks, rather than months) clearly has an effect on birth weight, it is also heritable, and can be altered through genetics.
Just ask all the ‘pedigree’ breeders that get excited about having bigger lambs born…

 

[unlacedgecko]

Whilst nutritional management (I would suggest over the last couple of weeks, rather than months) clearly has an effect on birth weight, it is also heritable, and can be altered through genetics.
Just ask all the ‘pedigree’ breeders that get excited about having bigger lambs born…

Bragging on social media about monster lambs that require assistance lambing (or even worse c sections) is not a good look, and casts the industry in a bad light.

Purposefully trying to breed for them is highly unethical.

 

[Nithsdale]

Genuine question, how much do you think a maternal ram should be?

Bearing in mind he could have direct daughters in the flock for a decade.

As much, or little, as the open market (auction) dictates.

I've bought maternal shearlings for as little as £120 and others up to £600 and I've liked/used extensively both... I've also paid anywhere in-between. Some I've liked, some I've culled within a year. The ram which has left the best stamp on my flock cost me £160 in 2012...

The best BFL we ever bought was £50 in 2001! Nobody liked him because he was black (back before Crossers became a thing) yet the Mules he bred were outstanding


I've seen some utter sh!t at Innovis sales and but they still claim the tup is worth £900... well it bloody isn't because nobody put their hand up and it's taken 'home'

 

[neilo]

Bragging on social media about monster lambs that require assistance lambing (or even worse c sections) is not a good look, and casts the industry in a bad light.

Purposefully trying to breed for them is highly unethical.

When I suggested similar on a Facebook thread a couple of years ago, I was told I was only saying it as I couldn't breed them like that myself.

 

[unlacedgecko]

As much, or little, as the open market (auction) dictates.

I've bought maternal shearlings for as little as £120 and others up to £600 and I've liked/used extensively both... I've also paid anywhere in-between. Some I've liked, some I've culled within a year. The ram which has left the best stamp on my flock cost me £160 in 2012...

The best BFL we ever bought was £50 in 2001! Nobody liked him because he was black (back before Crossers became a thing) yet the Mules he bred were outstanding


I've seen some utter sh!t at Innovis sales and but they still claim the tup is worth £900... well it bloody isn't because nobody put their hand up and it's taken 'home'

I've never bought a ram at an auction. I suppose that may change if I ever get down to the exlana sale.

I think I could justify spending 4 figures on a ram if he was what I thought I needed for my program. I've no direct experience of innovis, but they currently don't offer anything to interest me.

 

[unlacedgecko]

When I suggested similar on a Facebook thread a couple of years ago, I was told I was only saying it as I couldn't breed them like that myself.

Surely it's a pretty simple formula? Massive headed huge shouldered ram + ewe with narrow pelvis + inappropriately high levels of 3rd trimester feed = high vet bills and bragging rights.

 

[Nithsdale]

I've never bought a ram at an auction. I suppose that may change if I ever get down to the exlana sale.

I think I could justify spending 4 figures on a ram if he was what I thought I needed for my program. I've no direct experience of innovis, but they currently don't offer anything to interest me.

Personally I feel terminal rams sold on farm the seller is asking more than they'd get in the ring for them. This, ofcourse is not a 'rule' just an observation and my own feeling - and to balance that I have seen rams sold on farm which I thought very cheaply.



Would you automatically pay 4 figures on your very first venture into a new breed/ram of which you have 0 experience?
Fair enough, some will. But I am a more cautious type and would spend a more modest figure for an 'experiment' because as you say - his blood could he in the flock for 10 years. Good or bad...

 

[unlacedgecko]

Personally I feel terminal rams sold on farm the seller is asking more than they'd get in the ring for them. This, ofcourse is not a 'rule' just an observation and my own feeling - and to balance that I have seen rams sold on farm which I thought very cheaply.



Would you automatically pay 4 figures on your very first venture into a new breed/ram of which you have 0 experience?
Fair enough, some will. But I am a more cautious type and would spend a more modest figure for an 'experiment' because as you say - his blood could he in the flock for 10 years. Good or bad...

Rightly or wrongly I attach far less importance to terminal rams. Only ever bought aged ones to use a kill.

First maternal ram I bought was £600 performance recorded single myomax easycare from @Woolless. Followed it up with an £800 version the next year. But they were for my stud program.

"Commercial" maternals have been £150-400.

 

[Nithsdale]

Rightly or wrongly I attach far less importance to terminal rams. Only ever bought aged ones to use a kill.

First maternal ram I bought was £600 performance recorded single myomax easycare from @Woolless. Followed it up with an £800 version the next year. But they were for my stud program.

"Commercial" maternals have been £150-400.

Aren't they all commercial Maternals at the end of the day?

Innovis you don't get that option. You can't just buy a cull or a cheap tup which nobody else likes - regardless of your intentions of use with that tup.
Their Terminals are priced the same as the Maternals starting price is around £600 IIRC - and it's a like it or lump it situation... and if 2 people put their hand up, it becomes an auction

Given how many went unsold at Carlisle the 2 times I went, I'd be very interested to know how many of these expensive tups end up as dog food at the end of the year because they're left with them

 

[unlacedgecko]

Aren't they all commercial Maternals at the end of the day?

Innovis you don't get that option. You can't just buy a cull or a cheap tup which nobody else likes - regardless of your intentions of use with that tup.
Their Terminals are priced the same as the Maternals starting price is around £600 IIRC - and it's a like it or lump it situation... and if 2 people put their hand up, it becomes an auction

Given how many went unsold at Carlisle the 2 times I went, I'd be very interested to know how many of these expensive tups end up as dog food at the end of the year because they're left with them

Stud rams are in the breeding program to produce flock rams.

Commercial rams just go to draft Shetlands to produce F1 females. Then home bred flock rams are used to grade up from there.

 

[d-wales]

How much of a reduction of income/profit do people think they would suffer if they went to all maternal rams instead of meat sires?

In the past week after having a few singles having trouble lambing, I'm starting to doubt it would make any difference by the end of the year once my time, loss of a lamb etc are taken into account.

 

[unlacedgecko]

How much of a reduction of income/profit do people think they would suffer if they went to all maternal rams instead of meat sires?

In the past week after having a few singles having trouble lambing, I'm starting to doubt it would make any difference by the end of the year once my time, loss of a lamb etc are taken into account.

Depends on whether you cost your time or not.

The sheep farmer I buy my commercial shedding rams from no longer uses terminals. He runs large numbers of ewes per labour unit and found terminals increase turnover but reduce profit.

 

[Woolless]

Depends on whether you cost your time or not.

The sheep farmer I buy my commercial shedding rams from no longer uses terminals. He runs large numbers of ewes per labour unit and found terminals increase turnover but reduce profit.

Interesting