Ad plants , you can’t make it up

[HatsOff]

Had this conversation last week. Contractor chopping rye down to 1/4 inch for a digester. All the trailers, pit men etc, would it not be more efficient to use the diesel to make electricity?

Presumably the calculation has been done... it makes sense if a few kWh of diesel can transport enough AD ingredients to make hundreds of kWh of gas.

Agree that only waste AD should be subbed and the misuse of RHI in NI (and to a lesser extent in the UK generally) is obscene.

 

[Still Farming]

If e doesn't have storage, what is the alternative?

More storage?

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

Mmmmm AD plants !!!
Carting Maize 35 miles to save the environment?

From what I've heard 35 miles is close

 

[Forkdriver]

Dare I mention..... should they he running on red diesel..... after a its an energy business not an agricultural one .....isn't it?

And are they paying business rates on the infrastructure and losing the inheritance tax benefits? The same should apply to wind turbines and solar farms.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Dare I mention..... should they he running on red diesel..... after a its an energy business not an agricultural one .....isn't it?

VOSA could have a field day, 18 ton trailers hauling crops, 20 cube tankers hauling digestate

 

[Hfd Cattle]

VOSA could have a field day, 18 ton trailers hauling crops, 20 cube tankers hauling digestate

......
Perhaps I'm not the one to comment on overloading

 

[SilliamWhale]

The idea is quite ludicrous, but its not just in the UK, there's plenty more in other parts of Western Europe. It all dates back around 20 years when in order to meet "green" targets Govt's were throwing money at all forms of renewable energy, some were efficient. some were hopelessly inefficient. One of the most notorious was a biomass heating grant in Northern Ireland that was so generous it paid more than the entire cost of fuel. As a result buildings were opening their windows to let heat out in order to keep the boilers running.

It was entirely predictable the day it started

 

[farmerm]

That one did bring about the downfall of a government though...


Wind your neck in.

AD as a process is a great way of turning unwanted biomass (waste food, dead animals, sewerage, muck, slurry) into usable heat and energy, as @sjt01's setup admirably demonstrates. The economics and regulation are often all to cock and give undesirable outcomes (like growing crops and hauling digestate for miles).

This is by no means a situation exclusive to the UK.

I'm not sure what your problem is with the UK Roy. When I joined the forum a few years ago I really appreciated and valued your input - and challenge - from a very different environment and culture. More and more nowadays I feel like you just come here to insult my nation as a primary objective (rather than merely as a constructive byproduct of challenging our accepted norms). I lament the change in tone.

except the bulk of most feedstock used in the UK is not waste biomass, it is maize and grass grown purposefully for the digester...

 

[D14]

Big difference between plants. Got 2 local farm plants that work well because they are appropriately sized for the farm they sit on. Theres a 1mw on a 2500 acre farm and there longest haul is no more than 3 miles and another 500kw one on a 1500 acre farm, again longest haul no more than 5 miles. Then theres a 2mw one which only takes food waste and then the digestate is spread within 10 miles of the site on farmland.
However theres a much bigger one, (think 5mw) about 25 miles away that is a disaster from what I can make out. So it depends on the situation of each plant.

 

[Suffolk Serf]

A 2.5MW/h AD plant might use 2500 to 3000 acres of feedstock and a lot of diesel is burnt growing and hauling the crops.
A 13MW/h solar farm nearby occupies 55 acres and I suppose might average 2.5MW/h throughout the year.
Once decent storage for electricity is perfected to iron out the peaks and troughs from solar generation the utter ludicrousness of crop fed AD plants will be clear even to politicians (maybe not!).

 

[Campbell]

Let's not forget, Kermit the frog was green...

 

[spin cycle]

Err, we don’t have AD plants . . .

what a sh#tf#ck of an idea

who the hell ever thought that was a good idea ? Sounds like an environmental disaster

doesn't australia burn the most coal per capita in the world

 

[Fenboy3]

And are they paying business rates on the infrastructure and losing the inheritance tax benefits? The same should apply to wind turbines and solar farms.

Yes they are and they same rules apply to wind and solar

 

[Bury the Trash]

A 2.5MW/h AD plant might use 2500 to 3000 acres of feedstock and a lot of diesel is burnt growing and hauling the crops.
A 13MW/h solar farm nearby occupies 55 acres and I suppose might average 2.5MW/h throughout the year.
Once decent storage for electricity is perfected to iron out the peaks and troughs from solar generation the utter ludicrousness of crop fed AD plants will be clear even to politicians (maybe not!).

Just what i was thinking and it could be that a solar park could and some do get grazed with sheep as well .

 

[essexpete]

Big difference between plants. Got 2 local farm plants that work well because they are appropriately sized for the farm they sit on. Theres a 1mw on a 2500 acre farm and there longest haul is no more than 3 miles and another 500kw one on a 1500 acre farm, again longest haul no more than 5 miles. Then theres a 2mw one which only takes food waste and then the digestate is spread within 10 miles of the site on farmland.
However theres a much bigger one, (think 5mw) about 25 miles away that is a disaster from what I can make out. So it depends on the situation of each plant.

A friend and I visited some land in west Essex earlier this year, farm on FBT with maize wall to wall. Never seen such abuse of land. Apparently the chopped product was hauled some 40 miles, albeit on trucks. Seemed ludicrous to me.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Just what i was thinking and it could be that a solar park could and some do get grazed with sheep as well .

There are downsides to everything.....

 

[flowerpot]

I visited Somerset last year and I know that there are lots of dairy cows in Somerset but I wondered why there was so much maize being grown!

 

[Bury the Trash]

There are downsides to everything.....

no, no downsides at all, win win more like

 

[DaveGrohl]

no, no downsides at all, win win more like

You missed the joke then?

 

[Exfarmer]

Dare I mention..... should they he running on red diesel..... after a its an energy business not an agricultural one .....isn't it?

Its about agricultural products going to make energy