AdBlue problems on combine engines.

[Lincsman]

Buy it in a returnable IBC and stick it up high, gravity works quite well.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Err, we've been running two John Deere CS690 cotton strippers this season contracting within about a 300 km radius of home base.
10,000 ha ( 25,000 acres ) of dryland cotton in the last 4 months.
New machine now has about 1000 hrs on it, 3 yr old one has about 3000 hrs
500 hp engine
1000 litre fuel tank
60 litre adblue tank
Fill adblue every 3 or 4 days ?
Just have a 200 litre drum on the back of a ute or service truck
We just use a hand operated rotary pump to transfer from the drum, the rest of the time it just bounces around in the back of the ute with a bit of rag stuck in the ends, so hygiene is less than ideal I admit
We just gravity fill the 200 l drums from a 1000 l IBC & a forklift back at the home base workshop.
Apart from having to carry the stuff & spilling it everywhere ( including ourselves ) the ONLY issue so far has been a dodgy exhaust sensor on the older machine this year.
Pretty much zero problems on two large, contracting machines over 3 years
This is us in a 900 hectare field
No room for down time here . . .

Some irrigated crop

 

[Scribus]

This is yet another example of lousy engineering by mainline manufacturers. Why should there be any hassle in filling adblue tanks in the first place? The sprayer manufacturers have bent over backwards to ensure chemicals can be added safely at ground level but a hugely expensive combine still needs labs climbing up steps carrying cans while the cab is filled with all sorts of gizzmos to make the operators job easier!

 

[sawdust]

This is yet another example of lousy engineering by mainline manufacturers. Why should there be any hassle in filling adblue tanks in the first place? The sprayer manufacturers have bent over backwards to ensure chemicals can be added safely at ground level but a hugely expensive combine still needs labs climbing up steps carrying cans while the cab is filled with all sorts of gizzmos to make the operators job easier!

All those gizmos are paid for, refuelling pump and adblue pump are extras too that need to be asked and paid for

 

[Andrew]

Weld a frame on the front of one of the grain trailers. Strap a 200Ltr adblue drum to it. Tip up next to the combine and gravity fill?

 

[Farmer Roy]

This is yet another example of lousy engineering by mainline manufacturers. Why should there be any hassle in filling adblue tanks in the first place? The sprayer manufacturers have bent over backwards to ensure chemicals can be added safely at ground level but a hugely expensive combine still needs labs climbing up steps carrying cans while the cab is filled with all sorts of gizzmos to make the operators job easier!

It's not f**king hard to have a hand operated pump & a few metres of hose. . . Why would anyone choose to carry drums up a ladder ? Sounds like an operator problem to me, not a manufacturers

 

[Andrew]

This is yet another example of lousy engineering by mainline manufacturers. Why should there be any hassle in filling adblue tanks in the first place? The sprayer manufacturers have bent over backwards to ensure chemicals can be added safely at ground level but a hugely expensive combine still needs labs climbing up steps carrying cans while the cab is filled with all sorts of gizzmos to make the operators job easier!

Not necessarily. Just about ?all? the combine manufacturers buy in their engines. The engine manufacturers will give them a tight spec on what has to be done. For instance, some engine suppliers will require that the adblue tank is no more than 4m from the engine, on the same plane. If it significantly higher or lower that distance is significantly reduced. So they may not be able to mount the ad blue tank at a lower level. You can combat this with different pumps etc but the engine suppliers don’t allow this.

They could have a second tank at ground level that they then pump up to the other tank, but that just adds cost and they don’t do it with diesel so why bother with adblue?

 

[Scribus]

Not necessarily. Just about ?all? the combine manufacturers buy in their engines. The engine manufacturers will give them a tight spec on what has to be done. For instance, some engine suppliers will require that the adblue tank is no more than 4m from the engine, on the same plane. If it significantly higher or lower that distance is significantly reduced. So they may not be able to mount the ad blue tank at a lower level. You can combat this with different pumps etc but the engine suppliers don’t allow this.

They could have a second tank at ground level that they then pump up to the other tank, but that just adds cost and they don’t do it with diesel so why bother with adblue?

Then the engine manufacturers are just as culpable.

Go to any trade show and the machinery and component makers will enthuse that they they have just the 'solution' to every imaginable problem, but we all know they don't and this is a case in point. If a combine manufacturer, in partnership with the engine supplier, cannot overcome the issue of high level filling of either fuel or adblue then they are not really trying with the basics and it is probably safe to assume there is a greater margin in messing about adding digital whatnots.

To put it another way, why should the farmer spend 100's of K's on a machine and then have to perform the same routine when it comes to refuelling as their grandparents did 70 years ago?

 

[Andrew]

Then the engine manufacturers are just as culpable.

Go to any trade show and the machinery and component makers will enthuse that they they have just the 'solution' to every imaginable problem, but we all know they don't and this is a case in point. If a combine manufacturer, in partnership with the engine supplier, cannot overcome the issue of high level filling of either fuel or adblue then they are not really trying with the basics and it is probably safe to assume there is a greater margin in messing about adding digital whatnots.

To put it another way, why should the farmer spend 100's of K's on a machine and then have to perform the same routine when it comes to refuelling as their grandparents did 70 years ago?

Where else is there to mount a fuel tank on a combine?
The could but a small tank at ground level and a pump to put it in the main tank. But how many farmers would spend the money on it? Realistically with 2x pumps and control system and 2x tanks and pipe work, that would be £1000 minimum. Why would a farmer spend that on every combine when £5k buys an diesel tank which will fill it where it is now. And more to the point every farmer already has.
Ad blue is here to stay. Every farm will eventually have to have a tank with a pump etc the same as a diesel tank.

You have to climb up to the engine to check the oils etc anyway, is it a great hardship to take a pipe up with you?

 

[Scribus]

Where else is there to mount a fuel tank on a combine?
The could but a small tank at ground level and a pump to put it in the main tank. But how many farmers would spend the money on it? Realistically with 2x pumps and control system and 2x tanks and pipe work, that would be £1000 minimum. Why would a farmer spend that on every combine when £5k buys an diesel tank which will fill it where it is now. And more to the point every farmer already has.
Ad blue is here to stay. Every farm will eventually have to have a tank with a pump etc the same as a diesel tank.

You have to climb up to the engine to check the oils etc anyway, is it a great hardship to take a pipe up with you?

How much does a new combine harvester cost nowdays?

Even if it were to add an extra £1,000 to the cost of a £250,000 machine it would hardly be a deal breaker and the manufacturers would sell it as a safety feature, let's face it, they sell all sorts of other bits and bobs which may never get used.

Climbing up to check the oils leaves you with your hands free to hold onto the rails, dragging a pipe with you does not.

 

[Andrew]

How much does a new combine harvester cost nowdays?

Even if it were to add an extra £1,000 to the cost of a £250,000 machine it would hardly be a deal breaker and the manufacturers would sell it as a safety feature, let's face it, they sell all sorts of other bits and bobs which may never get used.

Climbing up to check the oils leaves you with your hands free to hold onto the rails, dragging a pipe with you does not.

I wonder if one of the manufacturers offered it as an option how many people would tick that box.

You can tie a tope to the top of the steps with a loop in it. Climb the steps safely then pull the pipes up after you. Simple, easy, and safe.

 

[Farmer Roy]

Err, as I've said, we've just clocked up about 2000 hrs between 2 machines in the last 4 months.
200 l drum on back of ute & a hand pump. It's not hard . . .
Admittedly the adblue tank on the strippers is at ground level just in front of the rear axle, but if you look at an equivalent JD combine ( S690 / S780 ) , or any combine, obviously an adblue tank can't go there. TBH - I don't even know if the big JD combines even run adblue. When the first CS690 turned up here a few years ago, at the time they were the only JD Ag machines in the country to run adblue, but apparently some other JD machines do now ?
Anyway, to fuel up any of the large US made JD combines of the last 20 or more years, you've had to climb a ladder with the fuel hose to access the fuel tank. I don't see the deal with doing the same with an adblue hose & a hand pump ( as I said with the cotton strippers, we were only pumping 50 - 60 litres every few days ). At least an adblue hose would be a lot light & easier than a 32mm diesel hose . . .
TBH - in over 30 yrs of grain farming, I've never seen a combine that you could fill the diesel tank from ground level . . .

 

[nick...]

Weld a frame on the front of one of the grain trailers. Strap a 200Ltr adblue drum to it. Tip up next to the combine and gravity fill?

I don’t know people don’t do this for diesel either
Nick...

 

[Scribus]

I wonder if one of the manufacturers offered it as an option how many people would tick that box.

You can tie a tope to the top of the steps with a loop in it. Climb the steps safely then pull the pipes up after you. Simple, easy, and safe.

Quite a few I would think, but there is no way of telling until it is tried.

There is a particular irony in buying a new combine at vast expense with all the supposed mod cons and then having to tie bits of rope to it to safely perform such a basic function as refueling.

 

[Scribus]

Err, as I've said, we've just clocked up about 2000 hrs between 2 machines in the last 4 months.
200 l drum on back of ute & a hand pump. It's not hard . . .
Admittedly the adblue tank on the strippers is at ground level just in front of the rear axle, but if you look at an equivalent JD combine ( S690 / S780 ) , or any combine, obviously an adblue tank can't go there. TBH - I don't even know if the big JD combines even run adblue. When the first CS690 turned up here a few years ago, at the time they were the only JD Ag machines in the country to run adblue, but apparently some other JD machines do now ?
Anyway, to fuel up any of the large US made JD combines of the last 20 or more years, you've had to climb a ladder with the fuel hose to access the fuel tank. I don't see the deal with doing the same with an adblue hose & a hand pump ( as I said with the cotton strippers, we were only pumping 50 - 60 litres every few days ). At least an adblue hose would be a lot light & easier than a 32mm diesel hose . . .
TBH - in over 30 yrs of grain farming, I've never seen a combine that you could fill the diesel tank from ground level . . .

I find it a little strange that when I question the whole thrust of digital technology I am looked askance at, to say the least. But when I suggest that hugely expensive combines are dragged into the 21st century by enabling ground level refueling people are quite happy to contiune with the ancient routine of heaving pipes and cans up aloft.

 

[Bloders]

is anyone able to draw a comparison with loading shovels and other earth movning equipment? (how high up is ad blue filling point on those)

 

[Andrew]

I find it a little strange that when I question the whole thrust of digital technology I am looked askance at, to say the least. But when I suggest that hugely expensive combines are dragged into the 21st century by enabling ground level refueling people are quite happy to contiune with the ancient routine of heaving pipes and cans up aloft.

Just connect 2 big pipes to the filler neck and route them down to the bottom with Camlocks and a tap on. Then just use your pump to fill the tanks from ground level the way you would a sprayer with water.

Would be a fairly easy mod for any farmer if they were that worried about it. If everyone did it maybe the manufacturers would.