Adding Sheep to Beef Cattle Farm

[in-too-deep]

Hello,

I know there are so many things to consider, so I'm just throwing darts at this point.
My climate is quite different than yours. Very cold, snowy winters. Usually hot and usually rainy summers.
Majority forested, but a decent amount open sandy/clay soil.

My wife and I run 40-50 Hereford/Angus beef cows. Calve in April-May. Graze May through October, then wean calves. Feed round bales of dry hay all winter. Sell calves at approximately 1 year old.

Cattle are never inside a building unless they have a newborn and it gets too cold and/or snowy. Don't want to lose ears, etc. to frostbite.

Perimeter fencing will soon be all 5-strand barbed wire. Rotational fences are 1 strand of good polywire temp.

I raised sheep when I was a kid, but very small scale. Not totally foreign to me, but I'm not up on modern production methods.

I work full-time in town, but very flexible. Wife works part-time and very flexible. She's doesn't work during calving or summer break. 2 kids aged 8 and 10. It's just us. No parents/uncles/aunts/siblings to help much.

My biggest issues/questions with adding sheep are these, and in no particular order: Fencing. Is 5 barb enough for curious lambs? 2 wires for interior fencing?
Marketing. Not much of an ethnic demand here, and I don't know if I want to tangle with direct meat sales. Nearest big sheep markets are hours away.
Predators. We have coyotes, which don't bother the cows at all. We have/will have wolves. I don't know their impact.
Shearing. We'd have to do it ourselves or get a shedding breed.
Handling/vet work. Our cows come when we call and we have a sweep/alley/squeeze chute. Same for sheep just smaller? How would we separate the species when they all come running when we call?
Would likely build a barn for lambing. Would prefer not to keep sheep indoors all winter. We have good windbreaks everywhere, but it gets damn cold here.

Normally I don't give a sh!t what the neighbors think... but maybe there's a good reason sheep aren't common in this area.

I know I'm not really asking a question, just kind of brainstorming. What do you think about taking on sheep? Crazy?

Thank you.

 

[Jockers84]

What’s the prospective profit margin has to be the first question? Juice needs to be worth the squeeze.

 

[in-too-deep]

What’s the prospective profit margin has to be the first question? Juice needs to be worth the squeeze.

Yeah, you're right. Just pondering the logistics right now. I don't know enough about the market and costs, yet.

 

[beardface]

Main question would be what you want to gain by adding sheep?

 

[egbert]

Hello,

I know there are so many things to consider, so I'm just throwing darts at this point.
My climate is quite different than yours. Very cold, snowy winters. Usually hot and usually rainy summers.
Majority forested, but a decent amount open sandy/clay soil.

My wife and I run 40-50 Hereford/Angus beef cows. Calve in April-May. Graze May through October, then wean calves. Feed round bales of dry hay all winter. Sell calves at approximately 1 year old.

Cattle are never inside a building unless they have a newborn and it gets too cold and/or snowy. Don't want to lose ears, etc. to frostbite.

Perimeter fencing will soon be all 5-strand barbed wire. Rotational fences are 1 strand of good polywire temp.

I raised sheep when I was a kid, but very small scale. Not totally foreign to me, but I'm not up on modern production methods.

I work full-time in town, but very flexible. Wife works part-time and very flexible. She's doesn't work during calving or summer break. 2 kids aged 8 and 10. It's just us. No parents/uncles/aunts/siblings to help much.

My biggest issues/questions with adding sheep are these, and in no particular order: Fencing. Is 5 barb enough for curious lambs? 2 wires for interior fencing?
Marketing. Not much of an ethnic demand here, and I don't know if I want to tangle with direct meat sales. Nearest big sheep markets are hours away.
Predators. We have coyotes, which don't bother the cows at all. We have/will have wolves. I don't know their impact.
Shearing. We'd have to do it ourselves or get a shedding breed.
Handling/vet work. Our cows come when we call and we have a sweep/alley/squeeze chute. Same for sheep just smaller? How would we separate the species when they all come running when we call?
Would likely build a barn for lambing. Would prefer not to keep sheep indoors all winter. We have good windbreaks everywhere, but it gets damn cold here.

Normally I don't give a sh!t what the neighbors think... but maybe there's a good reason sheep aren't common in this area.

I know I'm not really asking a question, just kind of brainstorming. What do you think about taking on sheep? Crazy?

Thank you.

you've got some major hurdles there.
Predators is the biggest, and critical problem.
Talk to sheep farmers nearest, get their perspective.

Barbed wire fences only slow sheep down ...not contain them.

Basic railed pens can contain them to handle them, - obviously sheep need smaller lower gaps than cattle.
but any numbers, and you're better with more specialised handling.
NZ style mobile aluminium pens/race setup is very popular here (UK)

Shearing is the job from hell if it's just you, and you don't do enough to become proficient.
distance from market sounds a problem, as does the faff of obtaining fresh rams if you're isolated.

On the plus side, mixed grazing makes for a better pasture.
Oh, and at least a sheep who's decided to die will generally do it quickly.

 

[in-too-deep]

Main question would be what you want to gain by adding sheep?

Diversity for the pastures and for the income stream. Can't have all the eggs in the beef basket.

 

[in-too-deep]

you've got some major hurdles there.
Predators is the biggest, and critical problem.
Talk to sheep farmers nearest, get their perspective.

Barbed wire fences only slow sheep down ...not contain them.

Basic railed pens can contain them to handle them, - obviously sheep need smaller lower gaps than cattle.
but any numbers, and you're better with more specialised handling.
NZ style mobile aluminium pens/race setup is very popular here (UK)

Shearing is the job from hell if it's just you, and you don't do enough to become proficient.
distance from market sounds a problem, as does the faff of obtaining fresh rams if you're isolated.

On the plus side, mixed grazing makes for a better pasture.
Oh, and at least a sheep who's decided to die will generally do it quickly.

So... One and a half positive things. That's a start! Thank you for your thoughts. I have more to think about now.

 

[Woolless]

I've heard it said that you can keep 1 ewe per cow almost 'free' as they have different grazing habits. I would think adding 50 ewes would work quite well in terms of how the sheep would perform. Hair/shedding sheep are gaining ground in the US and those from a decent breeder would remove a lot of the hassle which can come with sheep. Your handling facilities I'm sure could be tweaked to take sheep. Perhaps the ewes could have access to the shed over the winter, without being shut in all the time?

BUT wolves would really worry me. Lack of a clear marketing route is a concern. You might have 75 lambs to sell but where do you sell them?

 

[ForkieX30]

Watch out for Malignant Catarrhal Fever. It's quite rare but cows catch it from lambing ewes. We lost a cow to it about 15 years ago, sheep went soon after.

 

[in-too-deep]

Watch out for Malignant Catarrhal Fever. It's quite rare but cows catch it from lambing ewes. We lost a cow to it about 15 years ago, sheep went soon after.

Yikes!

 

[in-too-deep]

I've heard it said that you can keep 1 ewe per cow almost 'free' as they have different grazing habits. I would think adding 50 ewes would work quite well in terms of how the sheep would perform. Hair/shedding sheep are gaining ground in the US and those from a decent breeder would remove a lot of the hassle which can come with sheep. Your handling facilities I'm sure could be tweaked to take sheep. Perhaps the ewes could have access to the shed over the winter, without being shut in all the time?

BUT wolves would really worry me. Lack of a clear marketing route is a concern. You might have 75 lambs to sell but where do you sell them?

Thank you for your thoughts and time to post. I have read the same about stocking rates. Going to research about sale barns. And maybe guard donkeys? Only half-joking.

 

[egbert]

Yikes!

keep calm...I'd never heard of it, and have calved and lambed species together all my long life

 

[Woolless]

Thank you for your thoughts and time to post. I have read the same about stocking rates. Going to research about sale barns. And maybe guard donkeys? Only half-joking.

Livestock guardian dogs could be an option but they'd have to be pretty 'ornery' to deal with wolves! A sheepdog is great to have as well but I would guess that they're pretty thin on the ground where you are!

 

[in-too-deep]

Livestock guardian dogs could be an option but they'd have to be pretty 'ornery' to deal with wolves! A sheepdog is great to have as well but I would guess that they're pretty thin on the ground where you are!

We do have a border collie who is very sharp, but currently lacks the training to be useful. We got her in hopes she'd be a cowdog, but we weren't able to give her the education. Loves herding cats and children and frisbees, though!

 

[Woolless]

We do have a border collie who is very sharp, but currently lacks the training to be useful. We got her in hopes she'd be a cowdog, but we weren't able to give her the education. Loves herding cats and children and frisbees, though!

There's plenty of resources available to turn her into a useful dog. A half decent dog is a lot better than no dog!

 

[spark_28]

Sheep behind electric fence would work better imo and give you more flexibility.

If there's not alt of sheep around you, you might score and get offered more grazing. Having nets would give you that flexibility

LGD would be the best protectors.

If You build a barn door slat the floor. Fine for lambing but even better for finishing lambs. Polytunnel for lambing is really good

 

[ladycrofter]

No. From a fellow American and 30 yr Scottish sheep farmer. Your predators make it nonviable. Your market is non existent - unless Macdonald's have diversified onto lamb burgers. I'm not being sarcastic, I mean this seriously. I haven't lived in the US for over 30+ years, but in my previous 30 years there I never once heard anyone talk about eating lamb.

We aren't prone to foxes or eagles here but many, many places suffer serious losses from something 1/10 the size of a wolf. Very very very easy pickings, the mother might fight but they don't have the fire power.

Fencing - experiences very greatly on here but I could never keep sheep in with electric wire of any sort, any number, or any height. We use Rylock here, what you might call hogwire? Also seven line which is just seven lines of plain wire. The lambs can dart in and out but after a certain age it's not a problem. No barbed wire here, it just rips trousers.

Shearing is a skill and very very physical. Sheep come with their own set of parasites and ailments, but as a cattle farmer you're learning curve wouldn't be too steep.

I used to do box lamb and it's a bit more labor-intensive than it sounds. Your delivery method has to be sorted out or you'll run all over the county with boxes, find someone forgot you're coming and has gone out, etc etc.

You really should get in touch with people in your area who do have sheep and find out what their experiences are. As you said they are great companion grazers with cattle. They eat differently.

My opinion- it would be a very costly exercise for you. It would divert time and attention away from your money-making cattle. You both work and you don't need phone calls to tell you the sheep are out again.

 

[ForkieX30]

When we briefly kept sheep the crows and maggots were the biggest issues, closely followed by feet. One sheep is more work than a whole herd of cattle, they seem to be designed to die, almost as bad as horses.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Thank you for your thoughts and time to post. I have read the same about stocking rates. Going to research about sale barns. And maybe guard donkeys? Only half-joking.

Wolves will eat donkeys. You will need LGD on the fightier end of the spectrum, like an Anatolian Akbash or similar.

No. From a fellow American and 30 yr Scottish sheep farmer. Your predators make it nonviable. Your market is non existent - unless Macdonald's have diversified onto lamb burgers. I'm not being sarcastic, I mean this seriously. I haven't lived in the US for over 30+ years, but in my previous 30 years there I never once heard anyone talk about eating lamb.

We aren't prone to foxes or eagles here but many, many places suffer serious losses from something 1/10 the size of a wolf. Very very very easy pickings, the mother might fight but they don't have the fire power.

Fencing - experiences very greatly on here but I could never keep sheep in with electric wire of any sort, any number, or any height. We use Rylock here, what you might call hogwire? Also seven line which is just seven lines of plain wire. The lambs can dart in and out but after a certain age it's not a problem. No barbed wire here, it just rips trousers.

Shearing is a skill and very very physical. Sheep come with their own set of parasites and ailments, but as a cattle farmer you're learning curve wouldn't be too steep.

I used to do box lamb and it's a bit more labor-intensive than it sounds. Your delivery method has to be sorted out or you'll run all over the county with boxes, find someone forgot you're coming and has gone out, etc etc.

You really should get in touch with people in your area who do have sheep and find out what their experiences are. As you said they are great companion grazers with cattle. They eat differently.

My opinion- it would be a very costly exercise for you. It would divert time and attention away from your money-making cattle. You both work and you don't need phone calls to tell you the sheep are out again.

Huge demand for sheep in the US. They currently import 36mil pounds annually. The equivalent to 0.8mil 20kg carcasses.

Winger saleyard sells sheep and is 45 mins from you. There are at least 5 other sale yards in the state which sell sheep, mostly south of Minneapolis.

If you can solve the predation issue, you will find sheep orders of magnitude more profitable than beef cows.

 

[in-too-deep]

Wolves will eat donkeys. You will need LGD on the fightier end of the spectrum, like an Anatolian Akbash or similar.



Huge demand for sheep in the US. They currently import 36mil pounds annually. The equivalent to 0.8mil 20kg carcasses.

Winger saleyard sells sheep and is 45 mins from you. There are at least 5 other sale yards in the state which sell sheep, mostly south of Minneapolis.

If you can solve the predation issue, you will find sheep orders of magnitude more profitable than beef cows.

I'm aware of Winger as we sell cull cows there sometimes, but I don't think they are a "serious" sheep market. You get a small-time hobby feeling there. But, I should investigate more. The big players will be south, like you said. 4+ hours drive.