Adjust / Barleyquat / Selon / Bettaquat B vs Magic Beans

franklin

New Member
Hello,

Could anyone who has been supplied one of the above, or who has used in the past possibly point me towards some (any) data anywhere that can show me that they in any way perform better than BASF or generic CCC? I have mentioned in the past that they seem to be the preserve of people who have a similar attitide to money as someone who would give £1m to the KLF and ask them to look after it on an island abundant in naked flames and petrol.The bumf says:

"The Specialty plant growth regulator (pgr) products are based on chlormequat chloride (CCC) as the active ingredient but include a unique, patented, biochemical system which makes the CCC more effective at low temperature (down to 1 degree Centigrade) and reduces the phytotoxicity of the CCC. The biochemical system (based on a mixture of amino acids, vitamins and vitamin precursors) also reduces crop damage caused by other crop protection chemicals, such as herbicides & fungicides, applied to the crop in tank mixtures with our specialty PGR’s . "

But I have yet to find anyone who is able to tell me what I am spending the extra money on apart from magic beans. I am in a tricky situation as I have to apply some on crops belonging to other family members who have been advised to use it, but all I see is the money going down the toilet when I have CCC in the shed as a stock item. Is 1lt/ha CCC incredibly phytotoxic? Will the expoxiconazole in the tank-mix somehow damage the crop without these vitamins / money glands?

Thanks.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
You don't want hard water when you apply CCC. I use the cheap stuff + a bit of acidifier. I think this is included in some of the above products..........
 

ZXR17

Member
Location
South Dorset
I am always advised to use Upright ( ccc+ imazaquin ) which is exactly the same as Meteor, also from BASF !!?
I have questioned using this product against straight CCC and was told it works better in cooler conditions, better rooting etc.
I do have some Cyanamid trial results that show a 3.7% yield advantage over CCC.
I have noticed that , when I was contract spraying a few years ago, independant agronomists would mainly use straight CCC and that service agronomists would ALWAYS use the "special products"
I am going to do some comparison trials this year.
 

franklin

New Member
I am totally fine with Meteor etc which clearly have a stated 2nd ingredient, even if it is only the tiniest teaspoonful per hectare. I have used Meteor in the cool, usually on thin crops too. I am targeting these products as they are all in the region of 6 times the price, and don't tell what the other "magic" is. Pesticides Safety people have them down as just 620g CCC, and clearly there seems to be some reticence to say what the mystery vitamins are.

Not wanting to get over-excited, but from GCSE biology I know that two "vitamin precusors" are beta-carotene (vit A) and cholesterol (vit D by the action of that other expensive product - sunlight). Amino acids could just be fatty amines. So could be 620g of CCC, some fatty amine alkoxylates (ie a cheap wetter) and a carrot.
 
These products where a known active is blended with snake oil are simply a way of making money for the suppliers.

As you say that fact that they can't tell you what the 'metabollocks adjuvant' is speaks volumes
 

franklin

New Member
Yeah, it was 18 degrees when I sprayed it. Just shoved a litre of CCC on.
 

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Case290

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Worcestershire
67kg n 30s 10 March
99kg n 43s 11 April but drought condition so don't think it was in till end April (thank goodness )
50 kg n 12 may
20kg n 25 may
flat on over laps.
Need to shorten / strengthen wheat for next year any better programs
 

franklin

New Member
Seed rate?
Drilling date?
Previous crop?

I'm thinking that the dry year has just meant less of the nitrogen has percolated away through the soil.
 

franklin

New Member
If it helps, we have used *less* N than last year by 50kg; drilled later than last year; 375 seeds; comprehensive PGR - and its still taller than last year. Going to send some soil away to be tested for N levels.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
67kg n 30s 10 March
99kg n 43s 11 April but drought condition so don't think it was in till end April (thank goodness )
50 kg n 12 may
20kg n 25 may
flat on over laps.
Need to shorten / strengthen wheat for next year any better programs
sounds quite a reasonably high seed rate if you have high fertility or little BG to smother.
A stronger program might be moddus + CCC at T0 and T1, followed by Terpal at T2. I also find canopy quite a good product. However I have never experienced the high fertility needed to use a program like that, you'd kill my crops! Also getting flat crop in overlaps is usually a sign to me that I managed it quite well, in fact I am disappointed if I don't have a few flat spots as I have either underdone N or overdone PGR.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
That's a high seed rate, which coupled with your 67 kg N in early March will probably have contributed significnatly to your current problem. There's nothing wrong with a high seed rate but you ought to adjust your early spring management to match it.

I'm not quite sure what Adjust chlormequat does at T2. Personally if it was looking too lush then I'd be increasing the dose of your Terpal equivalent, Ipanema, to at least a litre.

The caveat here that has made PGR choice harder this season was the dry spell at PGR timings then lush compensatory growth when it did start to rain.
 

T Hectares

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Berkshire
If it helps, we have used *less* N than last year by 50kg; drilled later than last year; 375 seeds; comprehensive PGR - and its still taller than last year. Going to send some soil away to be tested for N levels.
Is taller Wheat this year not an effect of the late rain ?

Most of mine is 320 s/m / 240 kg N type stuff,
1 ltr CCC T0
1 ltr CCC + 0.15 ltr Generic Moddus T1

Then the dry spell kicked in and @ T2 crops were very short, they then grew like mad in the wet spell up to ear emergence and past the Terpal cut off.

They are not silly tall, but taller than I would like, fingers crossed we don't get a repeat of the Barley flattening weather of a few weeks back....
 

franklin

New Member
Is taller Wheat this year not an effect of the late rain ?

Most of mine is 320 s/m / 240 kg N type stuff,
1 ltr CCC T0
1 ltr CCC + 0.15 ltr Generic Moddus T1

Then the dry spell kicked in and @ T2 crops were very short, they then grew like mad in the wet spell up to ear emergence and past the Terpal cut off.

They are not silly tall, but taller than I would like, fingers crossed we don't get a repeat of the Barley flattening weather of a few weeks back....

Yes. Lots of fert in the soil but not really being used until the rainfall rather than steady growth through the year.

Spray misses in spring oats are maybe 6" taller than main crop.
 

Case290

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Worcestershire
Conclusion trinexapac and chlormequate split done T 0,1, at varying rates depending on crop ect and finish of with ipanema t2 Droping the chlomereqate out ( adjust ) suits me at 9.90 per lt.
 

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