Advice towards a system in the future

[czechmate]

Here, the land is light. Set bed preparation, never an issue. It gets too hot and dry too early for high yields but barely and early wheat are normally around 7tonne. Inputs are set to match yield potential so the margin is ok (plus we are mixed so that adds to the value of the grain and straw. The ground was drained in 1983 but received no maintenance afterwards. The take off ditches were full of willows so the drain outlets were a metre under water. I cleared the ditches and bought a Jetter and have cleaned a lot of drains. They don’t use gravel here and the pipes are about 4 foot deep. One of the main problems I think I have, is that the ground doesn’t crack ! (In leics you had to be careful not to turn over your ankle the cracks were so huge). I used a shakeraor (elmstead always said they are not a sub soiler) and last year (a good year) I thought I had solved the drainage issues. This year (very bad year) there are large areas where the water isn’t getting away. With the lack of cracking I am thinking it looks like I need to subsoil every year (i will get a proper subsoiler too). Maybe with auto steer i could do alternate halves each year?
The problem going forward is the probability of loosing glyphosate quite soon. With the low yield potential I can’t see the mileage in having to subsoil and plough to establish cereals . The other problem being after using a light pass with a carrier on 2 occasions for chit and weed decication I end up with 4 inches of powder.
Oh, as a mixed farm we also spread our muck but we feed hay so our muck tends to be full of grass seed, hence a pass with the carrier after to flush the grass seed, then at the moment a spray with glyphosate at seeding.

I am struggling at the moment to see a cost effective system without glyphosate (other than buying a few years worth to tied me over until retirement)

Any suggestions greatly appreciated

 

[glasshouse]

Put gravel over the drains

 

[czechmate]

Put gravel over the drains

Ha ha. I did actually do some of that this autumn. That would be a task and a half

 

[bobk]

It's f**king wet Mark , never seen anywhere near this bad in 15 years , probably won't rain next year .

Back home c'est normale .

 

[czechmate]

It's fudgeing wet Mark , never seen anywhere near this bad in 15 years , probably won't rain next year .

Back home c'est normale .

Yes, it is very wet. But where the drains work correctly I could of been happily spreading slug pellets today for eg (obviously not with the gale but you know what I mean). But the wet bits are awful.
Thread is more about a system without glyphosate... it was kind of a trial this year for the future to try multiple carrier passes but I made deep powder which I could only drill with a tine drill.
I can’t imagine ploughing it all and can’t see the finances justifying subsoiling and ploughing

 

[bobk]

Yes, it is very wet. But where the drains work correctly I could of been happily spreading slug pellets today for eg (obviously not with the gale but you know what I mean). But the wet bits are awful.
Thread is more about a system without glyphosate... it was kind of a trial this year for the future to try multiple carrier passes but I made deep powder which I could only drill with a tine drill.
I can’t imagine ploughing it all and can’t see the finances justifying subsoiling and ploughing

Tell Sam to send you some roundup , we're not banning it .

No plough , no glypho = no money .

 

[czechmate]

Tell Sam to send you some roundup , we're not banning it .

No plough , no glypho = no money .

Only plan at the mo is to stock up but I don’t think the partner will allow it
I was looking for a suggestion like buckwheat after barely (difficult as it doesn’t rain in the summer) and direct drilled. But that seems to need glyphosate in my eyes

It’s also why guys here are looking at these shallow ploughs but... hmmm.

 

[bobk]

Only plan at the mo is to stock up but I don’t think the partner will allow it
I was looking for a suggestion like buckwheat after barely (difficult as it doesn’t rain in the summer) and direct drilled. But that seems to need glyphosate in my eyes

It’s also why guys here are looking at these shallow ploughs but... hmmm.

You haven't got blackgrass .... have you .

 

[czechmate]

You haven't got blackgrass .... have you .

Not yet

 

[glasshouse]

Ha ha. I did actually do some of that this autumn. That would be a task and a half

I thought i would use a post hole borer to drill a hole beside a drain and fill it with stone and mole through it or mole with gravel, i have the machine.

 

[David.]

Is it an anti-Euro myth that the French are hotter on policing chemical usage then, sure I read in FW once that you can have your sprayer tank randomly dipped and contents checked over there?
Which would make carrying a stash of 360 a bit risky.

 

[bobk]

Is it an anti-Euro myth that the French are hotter on policing chemical usage then, sure I read in FW once that you can have your sprayer tank randomly dipped and contents checked over there?
Which would make carrying a stash of 360 a bit risky.

Don't know about dipping , but they check invoices against cropping ....

 

[will l]

Is it an anti-Euro myth that the French are hotter on policing chemical usage then, sure I read in FW once that you can have your sprayer tank randomly dipped and contents checked over there?
Which would make carrying a stash of 360 a bit risky.

Yes they do stop crop sprayers and check, alot of tank mixes authorised in GB are not approved in france, they also do soil and water samples, the water police here carry guns!

 

[will l]

Here, the land is light. Set bed preparation, never an issue. It gets too hot and dry too early for high yields but barely and early wheat are normally around 7tonne. Inputs are set to match yield potential so the margin is ok (plus we are mixed so that adds to the value of the grain and straw. The ground was drained in 1983 but received no maintenance afterwards. The take off ditches were full of willows so the drain outlets were a metre under water. I cleared the ditches and bought a Jetter and have cleaned a lot of drains. They don’t use gravel here and the pipes are about 4 foot deep. One of the main problems I think I have, is that the ground doesn’t crack ! (In leics you had to be careful not to turn over your ankle the cracks were so huge). I used a shakeraor (elmstead always said they are not a sub soiler) and last year (a good year) I thought I had solved the drainage issues. This year (very bad year) there are large areas where the water isn’t getting away. With the lack of cracking I am thinking it looks like I need to subsoil every year (i will get a proper subsoiler too). Maybe with auto steer i could do alternate halves each year?
The problem going forward is the probability of loosing glyphosate quite soon. With the low yield potential I can’t see the mileage in having to subsoil and plough to establish cereals . The other problem being after using a light pass with a carrier on 2 occasions for chit and weed decication I end up with 4 inches of powder.
Oh, as a mixed farm we also spread our muck but we feed hay so our muck tends to be full of grass seed, hence a pass with the carrier after to flush the grass seed, then at the moment a spray with glyphosate at seeding.

I am struggling at the moment to see a cost effective system without glyphosate (other than buying a few years worth to tied me over until retirement)

Any suggestions greatly appreciated

The key is in the rotation, no second straw crops, wheat /rape/wheat /spring break crop, muck and plough before spring break crop,
Normally the drain trenches are back filled with top soil slower drainage yes, and better moisture retention spring and summer which is why your yields are the best in the limousin,

 

[willy]

Sell land in France and buy in uk.

 

[czechmate]

Sell land in France and buy in uk.

Erm..........

Think I'll give that a miss .

Actually, something like what you do with stubble crops and sheep would work well for a younger man

 

[will l]

Erm..........

Think I'll give that a miss .

Actually, something like what you do with stubble crops and sheep would work well for a younger man

If you dont want the work, rent it out on a 9 year tenancy, Sell the subsidy off it, to the tenant or whoever,The chambre will tell you value,
In 9 years your son will be prioritaire to reprend, he can farm it, you can both farm it, or you can sell. Speak to your accountant and notaire, the "revenue foncier" attracts a lower level of MSA and tax, as it is "patrimoine"

 

[willy]

Crimson clover on 10inch rows, and inter crop with wheat.

I think it’s crimsonclover as it doesn’t get too tall and you can inter row Harrow and drill wheat and the clover fixes N and is long term.

I am going to try this on an acre.

 

[DrWazzock]

Similar problems with some of the drains here. They used only straw backfill over some where the drain was down in the sand under a metre of clay. The clay has completely sealed over. Subsoiling / moling works to some extent but by the time you are deep enough to get through the clay you are in danger if hitting the drain. It's never really dry enough at depth anyway to crack it.

Only way for us is either a new scheme or dig up and re lay with stone backfill. It's just about doable with a mini digger, perhaps do worst bit each year.

Economically it doesn't really add up but nor does leaving it water logged.

 

[czechmate]

If you dont want the work, rent it out on a 9 year tenancy, Sell the subsidy off it, to the tenant or whoever,The chambre will tell you value,
In 9 years your son will be prioritaire to reprend, he can farm it, you can both farm it, or you can sell. Speak to your accountant and notaire, the "revenue foncier" attracts a lower level of MSA and tax, as it is "patrimoine"

Sensible will.
Not quite ready to give up yet. With my tine drill and glyphosate my 60 ha cereal is two days work and we have that for a couple of years yet. Actually, there are some articles going around about the cost of loosing glyphosate (saying about €150/ha) and maybe a selective reduction. I haven’t read this but am guessing maybe they mean stop the permission for decication?