Agri shed prices and budget.

Stroppymonkey

Member
Trade
Hi. I am new to this forum, and seeking a little advice. I will try to keep this short as possible. I come from a farming background but have spent last 22 years working in construction, and have over that time built a small business with 12 employees. I rent a very cheap shed and yard space (about 5000ft shed) and about 5000ft external yard space from a local retired chicken farmer and another neighbour. Been there for 7 years and its very cheap, very discreet and perfect apart from the lack of lease or permanency. I need to have a plan B in case this site ever becomes unavailable, although hopefully we will be here as long as we need. My family still own and run a small farm within my work area (where I grew up) and parents are reaching retirement age and thinking about the future. My sibling is partner in the farm and I have no interest in the farming business. I have been given the opportunity of building an Agricultural Storage shed on an outlying field with lane and road access and services nearby. I have circa 60K available personally to fund the project (which I know isn't enough!)
Have been through it with accountant and this would be my personal project and nothing to do with my LTD business at this stage. I would loan the money to the farm for them to build the shed and get the VAT relief. After 3 years the 2 acre plot and shed it would be transferred to me FOC. I would need to have legal agreements in place to protect myself in case of death or disagreement etc, and there are a couple of capital gains issues etc, but that is mostly in hand and discussed.
The shed would obviously only have consent for Ag storage, but would provide potentially the chance for a back up location for my business. I am reasonably aware of the planning limitations etc, but anything I did would be fairly slow and discreet and subtle, and I have seen plenty of similar local set ups not have a problem with change of use from storage if challenged. I hope I would never need it, and be mainly treating this as an investment for the future and my retirement (currently only 41 years old) and likely be letting most of it as storage space to local farmers/contractors/family just to keep it from sitting empty and provide some income to allow the building and access to be gradually improved over the years, thus increasing its value and usability. If life goes to plan then I don't need it to provide me with any income for the next 25 years.
My biggest dilemma is that as far as I am aware, this is a one shot chance to get a shed up-to 10000 sq ft with only permitted development rights as once the site is split off from the farm it will be too small to qualify again for further building under permitted development rights and require planning permissions.
Obviously material prices are chaotic, but I have recently seen £12 a square foot quoted for complete job, which with my £60K budget would only maybe buy me a basic 5000ft shed with roof/floor/walls/door etc (groundworks and access track and services all additional cost) I hope I am being semi realistic with prices, I wouldn't build till spring/summer 2023, but would get groundworks sorted this year.

My main question is... What needs to be built to qualify as completed? Can I build a 5000 sq ft shed with roof and cladding, and then just have another 5000 sq ft of 2 x lean to space with galvanised steel framework only erected ready for completion at a future time when desired/ affordable etc?

Thanks for reading this and look forward to your opinions.

Ben
 

Nearly

Member
Location
North of York
In 3 years you'll have chance of 2 bites at the prior notification cherry.
Most very small farmers I know 'rent' larger parts of land to continue to qualify as large enough for pd rights.
Unless you're somewhere near me and I'm affected by your plans, in which case you're trying to beat a perfectly good system and deserve to be crucified for trying to pave over the entire countryside.
Sibling will get a tax bill based on the value of the 'fixed' part of the shed. :(
It might be as easy for your farming business to fund the shed?
Don't fall out with the family.
 

Stroppymonkey

Member
Trade
In 3 years you'll have chance of 2 bites at the prior notification cherry.
Most very small farmers I know 'rent' larger parts of land to continue to qualify as large enough for pd rights.
Unless you're somewhere near me and I'm affected by your plans, in which case you're trying to beat a perfectly good system and deserve to be crucified for trying to pave over the entire countryside.
Sibling will get a tax bill based on the value of the 'fixed' part of the shed. :(
It might be as easy for your farming business to fund the shed?
Don't fall out with the family.
The issue seems to be that if I fall under the 5HA size then my development rights are somewhat curtailed. The plot where I want to build a barn will need to be about 1.1 Ha, I cant get a sensible answer on what sort of lease I need on other land to get it over the 5Ha mark. My Mother in Law owns about 60 acres across the county border so could possibly get a formal rent agreement on some of that perhaps to create a holding over 10Ha. If I could own the small plot of land first, and set up a separate AG holding and build the shed myself without ANY financial involvement with my family it would be MUCH better!
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I’d probably be looking at this the other way around from a simpler perspective.

You say you have a business with 12 employees. If it were me in that position I think would be looking for a written agreement of some sort at the very least to keep things professional and so all parties knew where they stood.

Can your existing premises agreement be made more fixed term secure?
 

Kidds

Member
Horticulture
You are allowed 1000m2 for PD but that has to include any new hard standing. So you can build a 500m2 yard which would leave you an allowance of 500m2 for the shed.
The work has to be completed within 5 years of permission granted, strictly speaking permission isn't being granted as they will say permission not needed if the application is accepted, but it is within 5 years.
As far as I know wall cladding is "free" so if you built an open shed you can clad it whenever you like. You would have to confirm that bit but in theory you could build a 1000m2 shed with no wall cladding in an open field with no hardstanding, then when funds allow you can clad, brick, block the walls.
I'd be looking to put up a 750m2 shed with 250m2 hard standing inc new track and go from there. I'm not even sure how it gets "signed off" as completed because Building Control shouldn't need to be involved.
 

Stroppymonkey

Member
Trade
I’d probably be looking at this the other way around from a simpler perspective.

You say you have a business with 12 employees. If it were me in that position I think would be looking for a written agreement of some sort at the very least to keep things professional and so all parties knew where they stood.

Can your existing premises agreement be made more fixed term secure?
Doubt I would get it, my landlord doesn't do paperwork, hes not motivated by money just likes tinkering with machinery and being left in peace. I did offer him a basic lease agreement about 5 - 6 years ago and his partner told me there was no way he would ever sign anything like that!
 

Stroppymonkey

Member
Trade
I’d probably be looking at this the other way around from a simpler perspective.

You say you have a business with 12 employees. If it were me in that position I think would be looking for a written agreement of some sort at the very least to keep things professional and so all parties knew where they stood.

Can your existing premises agreement be made more fixed term secure?
I have a VERY informal agreement whereby I pay him £1.50 a sq ft per year for indoor space and I can do whatever I like as long as its costs him nothing. I have made lots of improvements over time and added roller doors and serviced / drainage / hard standing so we both benefit from the arrangement and I get about 5000 foot of space for about £100 a week which is peanuts.
 
The use of an agricultural building for non-agricultural use is a risk and I must advise against it. There is a risk (up to you to determine how big) of the council finding out and seeking a court order for you to remove the building and restore the land.
Seeking Prior Approval for an agricultural building on an agricultural holding you will be required to prove the 'need' for the building - the GPDO states that the building must be reasonably necessary for the agricultural holding so this may limit the size you can successfully seek approval for.
You are correct that once split from the farm 1.1Ha would not benefit from Permitted Development rights and therefore planning permission would be required.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
be better to borrow the money and get it finished. repayments would be nothing compared to the rental value of the shed, even if just for ag storage.

you wont save very much by not putting purlins and sheets on.

cheapest way of building that size would be something like 80ft span x 120ft in 20ft bays. lean-tos or small spans usually increase the cost per sq ft, generally 60-80ft span works out the cheapest
 
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Stroppymonkey

Member
Trade
Yeah it seems that way. Concrete another story. Looks like hard standing accounts for part of the PD area so that reduces the shed size a LOT as well which helps keep the budget under control. Assume hard standing can be stoned ground rather than concrete.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yeah it seems that way. Concrete another story. Looks like hard standing accounts for part of the PD area so that reduces the shed size a LOT as well which helps keep the budget under control. Assume hard standing can be stoned ground rather than concrete.
if it was me id want to build the shed as big as possible, then add the yard/hard standing later on if required, as chucking some hardcore about is hardly like to attract attention. or you could concrete, clad etc half your new shed and use the other half as a "covered yard"
 

RhysT

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Swansea
Hi. Ive been quoted approx 13.50 per ft2 for a large Agri building. 2 sides, one gable and concrete fibre roof. Inc concrete panels on the 3 sides as well. Does this seem like the going rate? Huge investment for me, happy with the contractor that quoted just wanted to make sure it’s in the ok ballpark price. Building is 4800 ft2
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hi. Ive been quoted approx 13.50 per ft2 for a large Agri building. 2 sides, one gable and concrete fibre roof. Inc concrete panels on the 3 sides as well. Does this seem like the going rate? Huge investment for me, happy with the contractor that quoted just wanted to make sure it’s in the ok ballpark price. Building is 4800 ft2
It's in the ballpark but I would get 2 quotes minimum tbh. Though you need to be careful as panel thicknesses, steel sizes (altitude spec) rainwater gear etc can all vary.
 

RhysT

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Swansea
It's in the ballpark but I would get 2 quotes minimum tbh. Though you need to be careful as panel thicknesses, steel sizes (altitude spec) rainwater gear etc can all vary.
Second quote came back yesterday. 5% cheaper from a contractor we have no history with. Difficult one to call.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Second quote came back yesterday. 5% cheaper from a contractor we have no history with. Difficult one to call.
Really depends on who the cheaper firm is. If they are a good firm then 5% is a significant saving, if they arent then it will cost you a lot more than 5% in the long run. If nothing else the 2nd quote confirms that your 1st quote was reasonable. Maybe worth asking if your preferred firm will match the cheaper quote or even meet you half way? They will have a lot more margin than the 5% built into their quote already.
 

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