Agricultural crises (another one)

[Goweresque]

Jesus, how many times is this old canard going to be recycled out into scare stories in the farming press? The 'average age of farmers is 58' stat is nonsense. Its the average age of partners in and owners of farming businesses who claim farm subsidies (and quite often who own the land that is farmed too). Not the average age of the people sat in tractors and stood in parlours milking cows. It doesn't include employees or contractors, just the owners of the businesses. Who by definition are likely to be older - You don't get to own assets worth millions on day one out of school or college.

I'd hazard a guess that the average age of the business owners in any asset rich business sector will be in the their 50s. Thats who own assets, the elderly, they've had longer to acquire them. And increasingly they tend to hang on to them longer too, as people live longer.

 

[Nearly]

and the tax system rewards them for keeping hold of the reins.

Hell, I'm holding the reins at the moment here.

At least I might be helping to lower the average age, just.

 

[Tim W]

Young people will not want to get involved in farming unless there is the dream of one day farming on their own, that dream has been destroyed by this stupid government’s ELMS scheme where rewilding is all that counts, any young person starting needs the certainty of a base land based payment for farming well to enable them to get started.
Sadly large scale farmers & the NFU have no interest whatever in the next generation getting started on their own, they are only interested in workers for their ever larger estates!

Or maybe the land based payment system has held up youngsters/newcomers from starting in the farming industry?
Landowners dole has meant that established farmers are keen to pay more for land and outbid newcomers?

When there is a change there are always opportunities & the new system of farming having to stand on it's own two (four?) feet may mean new chances for incomers on share farming/contracting agreements ?
Conversely the new changes may mean that older established businesses that can't see how to /are unwilling to adapt may fail ?

I recently advertised for someone to work with me and 3/5 applicants were in their 20's ---4/5 were female
They don't all have the skills i need but all were full of enthusiasm and i have no doubt that some will make a good career in farming ---probably in their own right
They all saw the shift away from direct payments as an opportunity for themselves

 

[Salopian_Will]

Plenty of young thrusters out here including plenty of new entrants, some of which have done very well.

 

[Henarar]

Or maybe the land based payment system has held up youngsters/newcomers from starting in the farming industry?
Landowners dole has meant that established farmers are keen to pay more for land and outbid newcomers?

When there is a change there are always opportunities & the new system of farming having to stand on it's own two (four?) feet may mean new chances for incomers on share farming/contracting agreements ?
Conversely the new changes may mean that older established businesses that can't see how to /are unwilling to adapt may fail ?

I recently advertised for someone to work with me and 3/5 applicants were in their 20's ---4/5 were female
They don't all have the skills i need but all were full of enthusiasm and i have no doubt that some will make a good career in farming ---probably in their own right
They all saw the shift away from direct payments as an opportunity for themselves

Or maybe not, I see older semi retired farmers taking BPS payments and letting land at very reasonable rates to those that want to have a go, will BPS removal mean they have to charge more so only the big players can afford it or just sell up again with only the big players affording it, just what I observe

 

[Yale]

Our three children are being encouraged to get their own career then consider the farm.

Two have an aptitude for science and one for PR/sales,12,14 and 16.

They are not going to get hamstrung by going to ag college.

That was the mistake I made however I’ve done it through graft and we have a viable livestock farm.

I just don’t want them to have to struggle like I have.

 

[ajd132]

Getting the older generation to actually hand over some responsibility on many farms would change these figures drastically.
I know so many people my age (30) who have been told there’s no room for them on the farm because there’s an 85 year old grandad and two sons in their 60’s waiting to take control. It’s ridiculous.

 

[nick...]

Getting the older generation to actually hand over some responsibility on many farms would change these figures drastically.
I know so many people my age (30) who have been told there’s no room for them on the farm because there’s an 85 year old grandad and two sons in their 60’s waiting to take control. It’s ridiculous.

This is the most common thing in farming.oldies don’t trust the younger generation and I include people aged 50/60 plus in that
Nick…

 

[BrianV]

Or maybe the land based payment system has held up youngsters/newcomers from starting in the farming industry?
Landowners dole has meant that established farmers are keen to pay more for land and outbid newcomers?

When there is a change there are always opportunities & the new system of farming having to stand on it's own two (four?) feet may mean new chances for incomers on share farming/contracting agreements ?
Conversely the new changes may mean that older established businesses that can't see how to /are unwilling to adapt may fail ?

I recently advertised for someone to work with me and 3/5 applicants were in their 20's ---4/5 were female
They don't all have the skills i need but all were full of enthusiasm and i have no doubt that some will make a good career in farming ---probably in their own right
They all saw the shift away from direct payments as an opportunity for themselves

Sorry but I cannot for the life of me see how the shift away from all direct payments without a land based capped payment system can be seen as an opportunity, with a shift to rewilding payments the more land you can put into low production with a decrease in labour the better off you will be. Just maybe if they capped rewilding payments new entrants might have a chance but I somehow doubt it.
The only way forward as I see it is a land based payment for the first 100 hectares with ELMS rewilding payments above that being capped at no more than £50,000, all the additional money saved then diverted to new or younger entrants. if there is still spare money available then sensible very generous grants for improvements again capped would seem a good idea.

 

[Salopian_Will]

Getting the older generation to actually hand over some responsibility on many farms would change these figures drastically.
I know so many people my age (30) who have been told there’s no room for them on the farm because there’s an 85 year old grandad and two sons in their 60’s waiting to take control. It’s ridiculous.

I recognise that too. And sometimes grandparents in their 80s who want to split things evenly with non-farming siblings, not recognising the huge shift in the ability of farming to 1. service the debt on the land and 2. farmers' ability to find land that is actually for sale. Their attitude is often, well we did it, why shouldn't you....

There is a difference between fairness and equity, which some do not recognise.

 

[BrianV]

This is the most common thing in farming.oldies don’t trust the younger generation and I include people aged 50/60 plus in that
Nick…

As someone slightly over that age bracket I can well see that problem as my two sons will testify but retirement now isn't until 66 so unless farming becomes amazingly profitable it's difficult to see how that will change, easing planning restrictions for sensible barn conversions or new builds that has started to happen may help ease us oldies out of the farm house over time but I'm afraid it will not come about quick enough.

 

[ajd132]

As someone slightly over that age bracket I can well see that problem as my two sons will testify but retirement now isn't until 66 so unless farming becomes amazingly profitable it's difficult to see how that will change, easing planning restrictions for sensible barn conversions or new builds that has started to happen may help ease us oldies out of the farm house over time but I'm afraid it will not come about quick enough.

its not about retirement, its about not being dictator when your 80 is how i see it

 

[Tubbylew]

Most young folk can't afford to rent a flat in town, leave alone the staggering capital required to rent a small farm and stock it, i'm certain there are plenty of young lads queueing up to drive big kit, but how many will be there when they're looking to settle down? sure there are a few exceptional people who have luck on their side, but not many. I don't really think it agricultures fault though, there just doesn't seem to be young folk about anymore, young farmers clubs have all but died out around here.
As an aside, the world fertillity rate declined below replacement level recently for the first time in human history, finding folk to work will become harder before it gets easier.

 

[ajd132]

Most young folk can't afford to rent a flat in town, leave alone the staggering capital required to rent a small farm and stock it, i'm certain there are plenty of young lads queueing up to drive big kit, but how many will be there when they're looking to settle down? sure there are a few exceptional people who have luck on their side, but not many. I don't really think it agricultures fault though, there just doesn't seem to be young folk about anymore, young farmers clubs have all but died out around here.
As an aside, the world fertillity rate declined below replacement level recently for the first time in human history, finding folk to work will become harder before it gets easier.

Most things will be automated. There will be a universal basic income for everyone in the future because they won’t be needed to work.

 

[Top Tip.]

The fastest way to reduce the age of active farmers would be to make anyone over retirement age ineligible for subsidy payments.

 

[BrianV]

Most young folk can't afford to rent a flat in town, leave alone the staggering capital required to rent a small farm and stock it, i'm certain there are plenty of young lads queueing up to drive big kit, but how many will be there when they're looking to settle down? sure there are a few exceptional people who have luck on their side, but not many. I don't really think it agricultures fault though, there just doesn't seem to be young folk about anymore, young farmers clubs have all but died out around here.
As an aside, the world fertillity rate declined below replacement level recently for the first time in human history, finding folk to work will become harder before it gets easier.

And yet here in Switzerland it is awash with young farmers as the Swiss government make smaller farmers a priority, we have a government & NFU that are only interested in the big boys!

 

[DrWazzock]

In some ways the entire taxation and subsidy system is designed to keep old folk holding on to assets forever. Once you get past being able to do the work there is generally a scheme of some sort to allow you to carry on, whether it’s environmental or BPS paying somebody a rent to farm it for you. Then inheritance tax rules means it’s safer to die with your boots on than relinquish control earlier. Fair enough but it means nothing ever comes up for straight sale that is affordable to new entrants. And house and yard are split off. Land amalgamated with neighbouring holdings etc, competition from equestrian buyers etc.
The only way forward is working for somebody else or renting odds and ends all over the place, neither of which is that attractive when compared to other careers.

 

[ollie989898]

The fastest way to reduce the age of active farmers would be to make anyone over retirement age ineligible for subsidy payments.

Why has everything always got to be about fudging subsidies.

 

[BrianV]

Most young folk can't afford to rent a flat in town, leave alone the staggering capital required to rent a small farm and stock it, i'm certain there are plenty of young lads queueing up to drive big kit, but how many will be there when they're looking to settle down? sure there are a few exceptional people who have luck on their side, but not many. I don't really think it agricultures fault though, there just doesn't seem to be young folk about anymore, young farmers clubs have all but died out around here.
As an aside, the world fertillity rate declined below replacement level recently for the first time in human history, finding folk to work will become harder before it gets easier.

And yet here in Switzerland it is awash with young farmers as the Swiss government make smaller farmers a priority, we have a government & NFU that areonly interested in the big boys!

In some ways the entire taxation and subsidy system is designed to keep old folk holding on to assets forever. Once you get past being able to do the work there is generally a scheme of some sort to allow you to carry on, whether it’s environmental or BPS paying somebody a rent to farm it for you. Then inheritance tax rules means it’s safer to die with your boots on than relinquish control earlier. Fair enough but it means nothing ever comes up for straight sale that is affordable to new entrants. And house and yard are split off. Land amalgamated with neighbouring holdings etc, competition from equestrian buyers etc.
The only way forward is working for somebody else or renting odds and ends all over the place, neither of which is that attractive when compared to other careers.

The inheritance tax rules virtually insist that you are an active farmer at the time of your death so as to avoid crippling death duties, maybe this needs amending & again capping.

 

[Tubbylew]

Most things will be automated. There will be a universal basic income for everyone in the future because they won’t be needed to work.

Maybe, but then whats the point of a life without some graft?