Agricultural Matters scares me so I'll ask it here...

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
Fair enough for the seller, but why do the vegan and vegetarian brigade try and make a product look like something they are opposed to eating.
I'm not sure the shape of it matters to the vegetarian, but if you are dishing it up to others then having a familiar shape or wrapper (pastry) makes it easier for them to give it a go.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Leading on then, tonight's question:

Do any of you lot consciously have meat free days? I'm not talking getting in late and throwing a tin of beans or poached eggs on some toast because of time constraints, are you making meat free changes to your diet on health criteria?
Yes I have started to have vegetarian sandwich for lunch it's really nice and I don't know why I didn't alter my diet before.
What I truly love about a vegetarian sandwich is you can just hold off putting on the top slice of bread long enough to add a slice of ham or beef so you can get some nutrient dense food also in to your diet, it's brilliant (y)
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
Yes I have started to have vegetarian sandwich for lunch it's really nice and I don't know why I didn't alter my diet before.
What I truly love about a vegetarian sandwich is you can just hold off putting on the top slice of bread long enough to add a slice of ham or beef so you can get some nutrient dense food also in to your diet, it's brilliant (y)
You're missing a trick; just before the top slice lands, you need to slip in a nice slice of extra mature cheddar ;)
 

Easedoff

Member
Livestock Farmer
To be honest.
Saturday evening delivering eggs and sausages, I really big time considered the Double Big Mac meal at the drivethrough, but settled for the ordinary Big Mac meal with a Mcflurry to follow and a latte coffee which all left me satisfied in the gut department. Stuffed full of salad and coleslaw or whatever it was too. About the best Big Mac I've ever had.
 

delilah

Member
To be honest.
Saturday evening delivering eggs and sausages, I really big time considered the Double Big Mac meal at the drivethrough, but settled for the ordinary Big Mac meal with a Mcflurry to follow and a latte coffee which all left me satisfied in the gut department. Stuffed full of salad and coleslaw or whatever it was too. About the best Big Mac I've ever had.

Would give up meat before I eat at a McDonalds.
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
The bigger threat to my business is corporate control of the food chain, rather than veganism.
How so? I've been out working at the same time as Easeoff posted and McD was the only place open to get something hot to eat. I thought they supported British farmers? Do you sell direct to the public?
 

delilah

Member
How so? I've been out working at the same time as Easeoff posted and McD was the only place open to get something hot to eat. I thought they supported British farmers? Do you sell direct to the public?

The first McDonalds in the UK opened in 1974. In 1974 there were over 1800 red meat abattoirs and over 600 livestock markets. You could rear beef in any part of the UK and market it how you chose, DW or LW.

Today there are over 1300 McDonalds in the UK. There are 249 red meat abattoirs (most of who wont deal with small numbers of stock) and 110 livestock markets. In a growing proportion of the UK it is increasingly difficult to be a beef producer, due to lack infrastructure. Critical mass is on a knife edge.

It wont be veganism that shuts our business, it will be the unchecked control of the food chain by global corporations.
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
The first McDonalds in the UK opened in 1974. In 1974 there were over 1800 red meat abattoirs and over 600 livestock markets. You could rear beef in any part of the UK and market it how you chose, DW or LW.

Today there are over 1300 McDonalds in the UK. There are 249 red meat abattoirs (most of who wont deal with small numbers of stock) and 110 livestock markets. In a growing proportion of the UK it is increasingly difficult to be a beef producer, due to lack infrastructure. Critical mass is on a knife edge.

It wont be veganism that shuts our business, it will be the unchecked control of the food chain by global corporations.
I think I get part of what you are saying; you'd like more 'cottage industry' abattoirs to service local demand, reducing food miles? Not going to pretend to understand the link with McD's though, or do they also own abattoirs?
 

delilah

Member
I think I get part of what you are saying; you'd like more 'cottage industry' abattoirs to service local demand, reducing food miles? Not going to pretend to understand the link with McD's though, or do they also own abattoirs?

It's cause and effect.
Concentration of food retailing - ie the replacement of thousands of individual cafe's and restaurants by 1300 McDonalds - has lead to concentration in meat wholesalers and abattoirs. McDonalds don't want to be buying from hundreds of suppliers, it doesn't fit the business model.
This concentration in abattoirs has lead (and the full effect of this is only now being felt as a generation of beef producers who have hung in there for want of another hobby retires) to concentration in primary production.
 

delilah

Member
There are folks on here who will tell you that the success of McDonalds is the free market at work. They are wrong, because there is no such thing as a free market. The free market is an academic concept that only exists in economics text books. The success of McDonalds has been funded by the taxpayer at every turn.
The taxpayer has paid for the refuse technicians to collect the detritus from urban litter bins and rural verges.
The taxpayer has underwritten the contracts to build the incinerators and landfill sites to dispose of that crap.
The taxpayer has built the motorways to haul the buns, burgers and gherkins the length and breadth of the country.
The taxpayer pays for the welfare system that tops up the income of the burger flippers on the minimum wage.
Your big mac isn't as cheap as you think it is. It costs all of us a fortune.
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
It's cause and effect.
Concentration of food retailing - ie the replacement of thousands of individual cafe's and restaurants by 1300 McDonalds - has lead to concentration in meat wholesalers and abattoirs. McDonalds don't want to be buying from hundreds of suppliers, it doesn't fit the business model.
This concentration in abattoirs has lead (and the full effect of this is only now being felt as a generation of beef producers who have hung in there for want of another hobby retires) to concentration in primary production.
In my eyes there are far more cafés and food places around these days than ever, it's the rest of the traditional High St occupants that have been decimated. Didn’t McD's just displace Wimpy?
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
My plant based cutlets are going in to the water bath for the next couple of hours 😁

20211017_152722.jpg



Every little helps!
 

delilah

Member
In my eyes there are far more cafés and food places around these days than ever, it's the rest of the traditional High St occupants that have been decimated. Didn’t McD's just displace Wimpy?

Every burger served in a UK McDonalds has been made in one plant, in Scunthorpe. Their centralized business model has led the cultural cleansing of the High Street. They purchase 7000 cattle each week. 13% of the 2.6 million cattle slaughtered each year. They are part of the cartel that controls UK beef production. Have a read about Dawn Meats, try and work out where your big mac cash ends up, and whether the exchequer sees any of it.
https://www.wikicorporates.org/wiki/Queally_Group
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
Every burger served in a UK McDonalds has been made in one plant, in Scunthorpe. Their centralized business model has led the cultural cleansing of the High Street. They purchase 7000 cattle each week. 13% of the 2.6 million cattle slaughtered each year. They are part of the cartel that controls UK beef production. Have a read about Dawn Meats, try and work out where your big mac cash ends up, and whether the exchequer sees any of it.
https://www.wikicorporates.org/wiki/Queally_Group
Wow, some operation and clearly bent on hiding it's cash. Although it's the profit from the raw product that's going offshore is it not? McD's itself will surely be sending Rishi a ton of VAT and employers NI and paying huge amounts in rates? Keeps a few in employment too.
 

delilah

Member
Wow, some operation and clearly bent on hiding it's cash. Although it's the profit from the raw product that's going offshore is it not? McD's itself will surely be sending Rishi a ton of VAT and employers NI and paying huge amounts in rates? Keeps a few in employment too.

As said earlier, McDonalds is subsidized at every turn by the taxpayer. In line with the other members of the cartel that controls the UK food chain, they take far more than they give. Your community, your farmers and your environment are poorer for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Food_Nation
 

Charlie Gill

Member
Location
Kent
As said earlier, McDonalds is subsidized at every turn by the taxpayer. In line with the other members of the cartel that controls the UK food chain, they take far more than they give. Your community, your farmers and your environment are poorer for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Food_Nation
I'm not going to defend them, but there are occasions when I'm pleased they exist. Do you and other farmers hold the same view about Burger King, Five Guys etc?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
In my eyes there are far more cafés and food places around these days than ever, it's the rest of the traditional High St occupants that have been decimated. Didn’t McD's just displace Wimpy?

I was going to post just the same thing earlier.👍

One thing that there certainly isn’t a shortage of is places to eat out. There are far more outlets now than there were before McDonalds arrived.

I won’t defend their centralised systems or their use of corporation tax loopholes, but I also won’t try to blame them for the downfall of the high street like some big bogey man.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.7%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 64 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.2%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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