Agriculture Post Brexit The Bright Blue View

maen

Member
Location
S West
The point I believe the article was making is that good prices would fall by 20% plus so tax could be applied with out a cost to the public. Meanwhile, the public purse would bulge with cash!

VAT on food will hurt the consumer, putting their costs up 20% instantly. It means little to a VAT registered business like your average farm though I can see a sudden collapse in the demand for high end shopping for premium brands & organic, just like post Credit Crunch. I doubt the government would just do it overnight - start at 5% and gradually ratchet it up over a longer period of time. It's too big a price shock to do at once.
point
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
Like I say negative rubbish,no one knows and anyone who says they do are lying trying to push their own agenda
Here is a logical fallacy - just because you do not know anything, doesn't mean that others (who may have taken the trouble and effort to become better-informed) do not know more than you.

It's why, after all, there are no 'leave' experts.
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
Here is a logical fallacy - just because you do not know anything, doesn't mean that others (who may have taken the trouble and effort to become better-informed) do not know more than you.

It's why, after all, there are no 'leave' experts.
Better informed from what,listening to people that have a twisted idea of what is good for us and I haven't been knocked down by the rush of remain experts after all they got project fear completely right didn't they
 

digger64

Member
Here is a logical fallacy - just because you do not know anything, doesn't mean that others (who may have taken the trouble and effort to become better-informed) do not know more than you.

It's why, after all, there are no 'leave' experts.
But we do know that what we had was a fallacy for alot people but not all of course , there was an opportunity to choose - people have rightly or wrongly , do you stay on the sinking ship and whinge and wait to be rescued or chance the life boat ? but now we are in the lifeboat the whingers want to go back for their luggage because they are getting their feet wet and arguing over the route ! (but hopefully we left the rats on the ship )
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
The point I believe the article was making is that good prices would fall by 20% plus so tax could be applied with out a cost to the public. Meanwhile, the public purse would bulge with cash!

Oh, right. I missed the fudgewittery of that suggestion. IMO whoever wrote that article has no idea of economics or business. God help us if they are recommending this policy!

Were they also recommending a reduction on the overall 20% rate of VAT to partially compensate for this? Am I missing something here? I don't suppose you could point me in the direction of that bit in the article please? I find the concept staggeringly idiotic. VAT does not discriminate against anyone, esepecially the poorer members of society. There are fairer ways of redistributing taxation than VAT on food.

I fail to see how food prices would drop by 20% unless the £ rose significantly. With no BPS subsidising domestic production Uk farmers would reduce production, sucking in cheaper imports. Unless the £ goes up by 20% following a wonderously great Bexit deal that brings everyone flocking to invest in Great Britain plc instead of the EU that's the only way food prices will shift & you can bet the supply chain wil siphon off a lot of that price shift so the consumer will never see that reduction. Consumers better off by having an extra £3.1bn in the public coffers so better able to pay more VAT? Really? £3.1bn would run the NHS for less than 3 weeks, not feed the nation 20% cheaper for a year. I appreciate that the extra VAT haul would flow in a circle back into spending but let's see how popular adding 20% to the weekly shopping bill goes down well with an electorate used to austerity, even if they don't like it.
 

Hilly

Member
Interesting, thats my flock getting expanded ! if the experts predict disaster im in ! they get it wrong every time and would to be fair would be better shutting up as they just worry folk who are easily worried for no good reason.
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Some seem to think we don't import stuff ( including food ) now....

Newsflash......

Screenshot (740).png
 
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RobFZS

Member
I really hope you're right but I think we'll be lucky to avoid a major correction in sheep numbers.
Seems to me it was always going this way, regardless of brexit how many farms rely on subs to make the sheep job pay, when the CAP is going to be reformed and less money going to the farmer anyway?

We've got some on tack and it's abit sad really that the guy says the sheep will just about cover wages and any subsidy will be the profit, just abit of holding off the inevitable really
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
An interesting read.

The writers do not have a full grasp of UK farming, that much is clear, but at least they recognise the need to support land management somehow. (y)

My initial thoughts:

  • Not a all farms will lend themselves to viable schemes
  • How do you get all the different "beneficiaries" to agree on 1 set of clear outcomes to trigger payment for a particular land parcel?
  • Way too complicated. If the RPA can't do a simple payment job right once a year then good help us with this proposal, especially if the EA are to run it (I worked for them and can't think of a worse organisation to run it, except perhaps the RPA) :eek::banghead:
  • Huge amounts of money would be siphoned off by middle men - advisers, "brokers", NGO's with an axe to grind, venture capitalists etc.
  • Too much reliance is placed on groups of land managers working together to create a scheme, something that we U.K. Farmers are poor at. To enable this see my previous point.
Using us as an example:

We have a watercourse which has a high theoretical flood risk in urban Hertford which we could influence with wet woodland or swales but most of the beneficiaries are residential - who would pay for that benefit?

The farm has plenty of woodland and hedges so has landscape and carbon sink value - do we then get a tiny bit from a national scheme for that and, if so, is it a separate payment? (I'm starting to see 100's of separate payments into the account to perplex the accountant at the year end).

Over half the farm is permanent grass receiving < 100kg N/Ha - does that get a payment and who from?

1 farm has several public footpaths and a bridleway across it, the other has none. Are we paid for the existing statutory ones or just any new ones we create and, if just for new ones, how do we stop them becoming statutory ones?

If my neighbour decides to accept wild lynx in return for a payment what stops it staying onto our land where we get no payment?

I could easily go on.

:scratchhead:
 
Location
Devon
No one knows what is going to happen post Brexit and one thing is for sure neither does that so called AHDB marketing expert!

That Expert should be doing there upmost to find new markets for us, instead they take the easy option and just spread doom and gloom!

Also beef could be worse hit than sheep.
 
It is very sad that, despite extensive media explanation, some still do not understand what is happening.

1. The EU27 has asked the UK to agree to settle outstanding accounts and what is open to debate is (a) the principle and (b) the methodology and (c) the resultant figure.

2. The UK has accepted the principle but has not yet confirmed that it agrees the methodology.

3. Instead, the UK prefers to skip that stage and agree a final figure as a 'broad brush' approach.

4. The difficulty is obvious - without an agreed methodology, there can be no obvious compromise: it's either pay the total, or justify a lesser sum via a proper methodology.

5. Instead, the UK is negotiating with itself due to political weakness.

But there is a time limit, which is closer than many think - the December Council meeting is the last opportunity to agree, before industry and the City begin an adverse commentary.

I think that Abi Kay's call is correct, but we shall know quite shortly.

The EU don't keep actual accounts, and any figure they come up with will be 'political' to say the least!
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 81 42.2%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 68 35.4%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.6%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.6%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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