AHA tenant on land for sale

[Home Farm.]

Thanks for all the replies. This is our only land and buildings we farm. The buildings with conversion potential are mixed up in and around the modern farm building that we have brought and paid for over the years. If planning is granted it would require the removal of some of these shed and disrupt the whole farm yard. It's hard to think about giving up and moving on from here after all father and myself have done to this place but there is plenty of work about that I could do and probably get paid better for than farming. It's just a big change in life if I do it.

 

[Bill the Bass]

Thanks for all the replies. This is our only land and buildings we farm. The buildings with conversion potential are mixed up in and around the modern farm building that we have brought and paid for over the years. If planning is granted it would require the removal of some of these shed and disrupt the whole farm yard. It's hard to think about giving up and moving on from here after all father and myself have done to this place but there is plenty of work about that I could do and probably get paid better for than farming. It's just a big change in life if I do it.

It has been said on this thread, but the best thing you could do is buy the freehold as a sitting tenant at around 60 - 70% of market value. They haven’t got planning consent, when they get it they will have three years to make a material start - that will be hard with you in occupation and given the tenants improvements you say you have made (these will need to be ‘bought’ from you too potentially negating the uplift of a planning consent, keep in mind barn conversions aren’t that appealing for a developer so not worth as much as people will have you believe) Get a good agent and try and buy the lot, it’s a great opportunity.

 

[Lincsman]

Thanks for all the replies. This is our only land and buildings we farm. The buildings with conversion potential are mixed up in and around the modern farm building that we have brought and paid for over the years. If planning is granted it would require the removal of some of these shed and disrupt the whole farm yard. It's hard to think about giving up and moving on from here after all father and myself have done to this place but there is plenty of work about that I could do and probably get paid better for than farming. It's just a big change in life if I do it.

Read this and get out quick!

Farming going down with hardly a whimper...

Worth the effort to listen to this sensible commentary to the end.

thefarmingforum.co.uk

Seriously, if you want to farm this is the time to scrape every barrel and buy it, low interest is a big plus at the moment.

But if you are not at all sure about it dont be scared of going in a different direction... as Del said "he who dares wins"

 

[le bon paysan]

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7 years rent sounds low to me. Aren't you entitled to six years when planning is granted? 1 extra year for a voluntary departure isn't much.

I went through this when I was bought out of my AHA. 7 Rent years is correct. What you can negotiate on top is depending on circumstances.

 

[B R C]

Have you another farm-buildings etc?

reason I ask , you mention that the farm for sale has buildings with conversation potential , any man or dog looking at this farm will know this and again will know that all they would have to do is apply for planning get it and you would be out with a small pay off.

If these building are of no real use to you and you have another set of buildings of your own why not do a deal of some sort with your landlord to surrender the buildings and some surrounding land and keep-buy the remaining land , likewise surrender the land and keep the possibility of barn conversations , you really won’t get another opportunity to do some thing as any new owner will be out to get you on some fashion.

we bought one out 5 years back and surrendered a big old farm house which needed a lot of money spent on it , best thing we have ever done.

I would take the contrary view, depending on the buildings and location that they could well be part of a plan that makes buying the farm doable with them being let out for workshop/office lets. The bank will really like the fact that you would have other more reliable income coming in.
when we purchased our farm there were clawbacks for residential planning but I made sure there were none for storage, workshop or office use. Never looked back from that. It may even be wihill the right business plan you could give up 100 acres allowing LL to realise full value and buy the rest very cheaply making it very affordable. Remember once it is yours you can put up sheds under prior notification every two years, best investment ever. Like everything though depends on location. Explore every avenue.

 

[egbert]

Thanks for all the replies. This is our only land and buildings we farm. The buildings with conversion potential are mixed up in and around the modern farm building that we have brought and paid for over the years. If planning is granted it would require the removal of some of these shed and disrupt the whole farm yard. It's hard to think about giving up and moving on from here after all father and myself have done to this place but there is plenty of work about that I could do and probably get paid better for than farming. It's just a big change in life if I do it.

I am still firmly of the 'buy it' camp.
If you can make it work, in years to come it will likely be one of the best things you will have ever done.

But if you really can't, or don't want to, it may well be that the LL would pay you to relinquish, so he has a vacant site to sell.

Think about it, he might be selling at a 30% discount with you in place, so bunging you 15% of the full value to get you moved might be a bargain for him.

I would advocate extreme care before entering such discussions though.
Indeed, an agent working for, and advising, you is pretty much essential.


Good luck

 

[thorpe]

I am still firmly of the 'buy it' camp.
If you can make it work, in years to come it will likely be one of the best things you will have ever done.

But if you really can't, or don't want to, it may well be that the LL would pay you to relinquish, so he has a vacant site to sell.

Think about it, he might be selling at a 30% discount with you in place, so bunging you 15% of the full value to get you moved might be a bargain for him.

I would advocate extreme care before entering such discussions though.
Indeed, an agent working for, and advising, you is pretty much essential.


Good luck

after recent experiances i would be very carfull trusting an agent , or have i been unlucky?

 

[Lincsman]

after recent experiances i would be very carfull trusting an agent , or have i been unlucky?

The agent will tend to be on the side of people will be owning land in future, if the OP goes to drive a bus then the agent isnt going see any future business from him.

 

[chickens and wheat]

Dont underestimate the value for money in driving the from the solicitors and pulling up 'your' lane to your farm.

We stopped and pulled the landlords name plate up ( I pre loosened it the day before).

Once you have it bought the motivation to crack on and kill the mortgage becomes very strong, no good being the generation who bought the place if you leave the debt to your kids.

The bank manager seems to have a different rule book when he drives up 'your' lane,instead of the landlords.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Am I the only one who feels a bit sorry for landlords.

Most estates seem to have death duties to pay for 20 years every 30 years or so.

After 1st & 2nd world wars 99% inheritance tax. I know the estate I live on was sold after the 1st world war to pay inheritance tax & the owners became tenants of one of the farms.

 

[Clive]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but thought this would be a good place to ask this question.
Our landlord wishes to sell the farm we have a AHA tenancy on. I'm the second generation tenant and may have a third to follow me in 25 years or so. We don't live on the farm so it's just the land and building with conversion opportunitys. We would not be able to afford to buy the lot and at 300ac it would not be very viable as a smaller unit. Has anyone been a sitting tenant on a farm that has sold and what can I expect if I sit tight. I have spoken to TFA but I wondered if there is anyone with experience of this process on here?
Thanks.

buy it all at 50% discount then sell half … you get a free 150 ac farm

what an opportunity!

 

[glasshouse]

Do you want to keep farming there and would they give you a big payout to leave?
According to TFF UK farming is finished and 300 acres won't provide a living for you, never mind someone in 25 years.
You don't live on farm, so how about a fresh start?


Just trying to see it from another point of view.

Where?

 

[glasshouse]

Am I the only one who feels a bit sorry for landlords.

Most estates seem to have death duties to pay for 20 years every 30 years or so.

After 1st & 2nd world wars 99% inheritance tax. I know the estate I live on was sold after the 1st world war to pay inheritance tax & the owners became tenants of one of the farms.

They deserve no sympathy, they nicked all the land in the first place, or the king nicked it and gave it to them

 

[glasshouse]

I am still firmly of the 'buy it' camp.
If you can make it work, in years to come it will likely be one of the best things you will have ever done.

But if you really can't, or don't want to, it may well be that the LL would pay you to relinquish, so he has a vacant site to sell.

Think about it, he might be selling at a 30% discount with you in place, so bunging you 15% of the full value to get you moved might be a bargain for him.

I would advocate extreme care before entering such discussions though.
Indeed, an agent working for, and advising, you is pretty much essential.


Good luck

A ltd co tenancy never ends, So discount is 50%

 

[chipchap]

Ok by the looks of this most people are saying buy what you can. What sort of discount do people think a sitting tenant should see? This is where landlords and tenants ideas will differ a lot.

Of course the apparent discount depends on what you value the property at vacant.

Don‘t get hung up on a set percentage, just try to find a sensible purchase price that both sides can agree at.

 

[herman]

Have you got a written tenancy? If you have sit tight and nothing should really change, if not get an agent on it ASAP!
However If you can afford it I’d be tempted to try and buy at least some of the land. Agricultural land with a sitting tenant will be much cheaper to buy than freehold land!
We have an aha tenancy on a block of land that recently changed hands. Our old land lord died and his children didn’t give us the option to buy as they where trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the buyer and sell it at freehold prices! It came back and bit them in ass in the end though and it sold at a 1/3 of there asking price! I would have bought it at that! Hopefully I may still get the chance in a few years though.
My tenancy is in a ltd company name so I’m not going to be vacating it any time soon.

That's a great position to be in.

 

[Home Farm.]

buy it all at 50% discount then sell half … you get a free 150 ac farm

what an opportunity!
[/QUOTE

I would love to do this but firstly there is no hope in hell of a 50% discount looking at this thread and secondly 150ac farm doesn't earn a lot.

 

[Nearly]

I would love to do this but firstly there is no hope in hell of a 50% discount looking at this thread and secondly 150ac farm doesn't earn a lot.

But it would be yours to take forwards as you want.

 

[Clive]

I would love to do this but firstly there is no hope in hell of a 50% discount looking at this thread and secondly 150ac farm doesn't earn a lot.

a neighbour did exactly this a few years ago (we bought the 50% all pre agreed before he bought / completed same day so no risk or cashflow issues to him)

another i know did it and sold his buildings for barn conversion development to pay for the land


50% certainly was possible

 

[glasshouse]

I would love to do this but firstly there is no hope in hell of a 50% discount looking at this thread and secondly 150ac farm doesn't earn a lot.

You are not a three succession tenancy, so your discount should be 60%