AHDB can feck right off.

I’ve heard these arguments before. I feel that they contradict themselves in that ploughing introduces more air which causes the bacteria to work faster breaking down the organic matter. But a healthy DD soil allows air and water to move around more freely which …..

This is backed up most of the empirical studies which show that over the full soil profile there is no difference in percentage organic matter for long term DD or ploughed land in an arable rotation.

if you take permanent pasture and plough it for continuous wheat for 5 years it is going to reduce the organic matter content. If you spray off the pasture with roundup and DD continuous wheat for 5 years it will reduce the organic matter content.

Again I'm not in the DD vs ploughing row. At this point I'll only be repeating my last post above.

Unfortunately the devil is in the detail and how something in soil is measured will skew results, not all accepted methodologies are accurate.

The moral of the story is, if you do plough, that is killing a significant proportion of the higher level micro organisms in the soil. Pretty much leaving bacteria dominant. Bacteria don't have all the tools necessary to create a healthy soil, so it'll lead to problems.
 

delilah

Member
They’re so good at it because they are heavily invested in it and see massive potential profits, those representing us don’t have the direction or the motivation or the budget.

I would imagine that folks on here are as heavily invested in their business as the producers of plant based food are in there's.
The difference is in what you rightly identify as motivation. Are those we employ to represent us involved or committed ? Think bacon and eggs; the chicken is involved, the pig is committed. We need to employ more pigs.
 

delilah

Member
The OP wasn't about ploughing.

'This farmer no longer ploughs'.
'This farmer only feeds her cows grass'.
'This farmer no longer feeds soya'.
'This farmer leaves his cows outside'.

Any farmer - whether they milk 3x a day or once a day, whether they produce barley beef or pasture fed beef - should be able to read publicity material that they have paid for and want to share it. It's not rocket science.
 
next thing there will be protests if you dare take a plough into your field.
Again I'm not in the DD vs ploughing row. At this point I'll only be repeating my last post above.

Unfortunately the devil is in the detail and how something in soil is measured will skew results, not all accepted methodologies are accurate.

The moral of the story is, if you do plough, that is killing a significant proportion of the higher level micro organisms in the soil. Pretty much leaving bacteria dominant. Bacteria don't have all the tools necessary to create a healthy soil, so it'll lead to problems.
so come on then what creates a healthy soil? One that uses a particular establishment method or one that contains various crops including roots which are eaten by livestock returning and recycling nutrients and organic matter back to the soil, how carbon neutral is it to grow fancy seed mixes to then drill, to then spray off with glyphosate to then break back down into the soil. At least with sheep they can eat what is actually produced and then return it to the soil biosphere.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Well I thought the AHDB ad promoting meat and dairy that came on half through Coronation Street last night was very good. Sadly it was followed by a veganuary ad of some sort but at least AHDB are trying.
I’m not sure where the non inversion farming ad at the top of this thread came from, but I have haven’t seen it on telly.
 

devonbeef

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon UK
Well I thought the AHDB ad promoting meat and dairy that came on half through Coronation Street last night was very good. Sadly it was followed by a veganuary ad of some sort but at least AHDB are trying.
I’m not sure where the non inversion farming ad at the top of this thread came from, but I have haven’t seen it on telly.
It suggests plant food adds firms are paying more to be told when to schedule adverts or vegan supporters are running the scheduling, to counter any positive adds we have.It could be a car add next but know it had to be a vegan one.Seen it many times.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
If we hadn’t ploughed in the autumn of 2020 we would have drilled no wheat at all. We would have been £24,000 down on gross income from wheat. Not sure we could have withstood that financial loss on our small farm.
Some advisers would say “oh well, part of the DD philosophy is being able to decide when it’s best to not drill at all.” Well we cannot afford to decide not to drill, and nor can the nation when you look at security of food supply. Ploughing widens the drilling opportunity on heavier land. And actually ploughs don’t do as much cultivation in terms of pulverisation as some of these heavy time based “direct drills”. Ploughs turn soil over, leaving a lot of the structure in tact. That’s why they developed with a mouldboard and share rather than being just a leg and tine.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
If we hadn’t ploughed in the autumn of 2020 we would have drilled no wheat at all. We would have been £24,000 down on gross income from wheat. Not sure we could have withstood that financial loss on our small farm.
Some advisers would say “oh well, part of the DD philosophy is being able to decide when it’s best to not drill at all.” Well we cannot afford to decide not to drill, and nor can the nation when you look at security of food supply. Ploughing widens the drilling opportunity on heavier land. And actually ploughs don’t do as much cultivation in terms of pulverisation as some of these heavy time based “direct drills”. Ploughs turn soil over, leaving a lot of the structure in tact. That’s why they developed with a mouldboard and share rather than being just a leg and tine.
Interestingly in the same period in our area (boulder clay soil) we were the only ones able to drill because we had loads of thick cover crops which kept the drill running clean and the tractor on the surface. We consistently chipped on through October getting an extra 250ha of wheat in the ground and fully drilled up. It was quite a revelation although the slugs were a worry for a while and of course there was many comments about what a mess it looked. Resultant yield 9.96t/ha over CS weighbridge. Many ended up broadcasting, slubbing things into slop and trying to move soil to get things in on ploughed and cultivated ground end result average crops and loads of compaction visible all year that needed removing.
I’m not arguing for or against anything, but we took a huge risk, which came with a lot of stick and it ended up being an absolutely huge win for both our own learning and experience cementing confidence in the system for us and our clients and most importantly our wallets. It was a revelation.
so in contrary to your thoughts we have widened the drilling window significantly, with much less cost and minimal hangover into the next season which costs even more. It is possible.
 

Old Spot

Member
Location
Glos
Slightly OT but DD takes time to get better soil, I am in year 10.
our modern world expects instant gratification,
most people and farmers I know are not patient enough!
try it once and it won’t work!
 

Jrp221

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Compare and contrast:

We Eat Balanced fb page as per the OP, and the Veganuary fb page.

Ignore the content, just look at the effort that goes into it, the regular posts, the number of followers it has garnered and the number of shares of posts.

Why are we so bad at this ? Do we just take the cheapest quote whenever employing PR firms ? Do we actually have people working at the AHDB capable of thinking this stuff through, making sure that what we are doing is promoting all producers equally ?


The trouble is if you look at all the 'Veganshituary' adverts they are from loads of different companies all jumping on the bandwagon of trying to sell their heavily processed, travelled across the world 'foods' the ADHB will never be able to compete but it would be good if they could make a bit more of an effort (along with the NFU etc)
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
And why is that sham of a Cartel RT putting its name to this rubbish?? Have noticed a lot of RT spouting rubbish on Twitter of late, mostly promoted by NFU types. Seems RT is having a bit of a push, apparently it's now 4 out of 5 shoppers who look for RT. Maybe they should be fact checking their output
 
A bit of desiccation and soil feeding for a Wednesday morning.
 

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___\0/___

Member
Location
SW Scotland
Again I'm not in the DD vs ploughing row. At this point I'll only be repeating my last post above.

Unfortunately the devil is in the detail and how something in soil is measured will skew results, not all accepted methodologies are accurate.

The moral of the story is, if you do plough, that is killing a significant proportion of the higher level micro organisms in the soil. Pretty much leaving bacteria dominant. Bacteria don't have all the tools necessary to create a healthy soil, so it'll lead to problems.
First milk are going on a huge up to 1 meter soil core sampling for assessing carbon storage. I don't have all the details but on the first farm worst field has been ploughed and had 80 tons of carbon per hectare and the never been touched in living memory permanent pasture had over 200. Think they are going to be test every 5 years and will have data on what practices have been carried out on the field during that time.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
The adverts you put on here are consistently brilliant. The ones we produce are consistently sh!t.

I wonder how the budget compares?

You told us the first part of the We Eat Balanced campaign was sh!t too, yet it was incredibly successful at getting the message through to their intended target (which isn’t us).
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
A bit of desiccation and soil feeding for a Wednesday morning.

That’s what has been increasing soil OM levels here, although reducing cultivations before and after is also making a difference (farm was always plough & PH every year with nothing put back in before I came here).

Not that this argument has anything to do with the WEB campaign, other than through one small, positive, comment that the OP has decided to get his knickers in a knot about, rather than focus on and applaud the main message. :rolleyes:
 

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