AHDB TO LAUNCH OWN SELF CERTIFICATION SCHEME

Would you like AHDB to launch new certification scheme


  • Total voters
    89

Worsall

Member
Arable Farmer
AHDB TO LAUNCH OWN SELF CERTIFICATION SCHEME
Well this should be the easy plan, and may save @AHDB Cereals and Oilseeds if they act quickly.
Is this the way forward to put the power back in our hands where it belongs?

Bullet Points:

AHDB Subsidiary Company as per Schedule1, using some of our Levy to fund it.
Grower simple self certification that they comply with UK legislation.
AHDB Online platform to print movement licenses.
Farmers also given chance to log disputed claims.


That’s it.

Come on @AHDB Cereals and Oilseeds , this is simple given the will.



Notes:

We self certify most aspects of our life and follow UK law.
No need for farm or paperwork inspections.
We also adhere to NRoSO and NSTS.
UK legislation, and Union Flag far more valuable then Red Tractor Logo
If a company wishes to sell a premium product and requires the farmer to supply to a higher standard, then they will have to pay a premium, and this is the role of an Assurance Scheme.

The AHDB is the perfectly placed vehicle for this, as stated in The Article extracts below.
#improving marketing
#subsidiary company
#developing
#marketing
#promoting
#certification
#collaboration
#determine own procedure
#non board members

AHDB 2008 No.576
3.—(1) A body called the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board is established.
(2) Its purposes are—
(a)increasing efficiency or productivity in the industry;
(b)improving marketing in the industry;

Acting through subsidiaries
5.—(1) The Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board may establish a subsidiary company for each of the industries within the scope of this Order and may establish such other subsidiary companies as may be conducive or incidental to its functions, and a reference to a subsidiary company in this Order is a reference to such a company.
(2) The Board may delegate any of its functions to a subsidiary company, but may continue to carry out any function it has delegated.
(3) A subsidiary company must carry out the functions in Schedule 1 that the Board delegates to it.

Article 3(2)(d) SCHEDULE 1
3. Promoting the production and marketing of standard products.
5. Developing, promoting, marketing or operating—
(a)standards relating to the quality of products, or
(b)systems for the classification of products.
6. Developing, reviewing or operating schemes for the certification of products or of operations connected with production or supply of products.
7. Undertaking the certification of products, the registration of certification trade marks, and the functions of proprietors of such marks.
18. Engaging in any form of collaboration or co-operation with other persons in performing any of their functions.

Article 4 SCHEDULE 2
Procedure
1.—(1) The Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board may determine its own procedure, and in particular it may—
(a)determine a quorum;
(b)appoint committees to advise it in the exercise of any of its functions; and
(c)determine the quorum and procedure of those committees.
(2) Any committee may include members who are not members of the Board.
 

teslacoils

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
So, I voted no and I'd just like to explain. We don't need a new scheme. We need to be able to use the standard scheme that already exists for imported grain at the point of collection. We need the adhb to fight for this for us, given the NFU etc clearly won't. I do t think we need them setting up a new department with inevitable London office and mission creep.

It's not even a hatred of RT - simply, we should be able to have our grain collected and "gatekeeper certified" in the same way imports are, and this should be at the same price. After this, RT can simply keep existing and any home that *wished to pay a defined premium* could do so.

UK grown grain is better than imported as standard. It deserves to be treated at least as well. RT is fine - we live in a world of choice - but has to be providing a clear premium so we can choose to join or not. It ought not be essential. And really it isn't essential.
 

Worsall

Member
Arable Farmer
So, I voted no and I'd just like to explain. We don't need a new scheme. We need to be able to use the standard scheme that already exists for imported grain at the point of collection. We need the adhb to fight for this for us, given the NFU etc clearly won't. I do t think we need them setting up a new department with inevitable London office and mission creep.

It's not even a hatred of RT - simply, we should be able to have our grain collected and "gatekeeper certified" in the same way imports are, and this should be at the same price. After this, RT can simply keep existing and any home that *wished to pay a defined premium* could do so.

UK grown grain is better than imported as standard. It deserves to be treated at least as well. RT is fine - we live in a world of choice - but has to be providing a clear premium so we can choose to join or not. It ought not be essential. And really it isn't essential.
Totally understand, but I feel a simple self certificating scheme gives us a standing above that of equal to imports. If you look at what the AHDB cereals net income is, having a new department that could be placed anywhere in the Countryside, is a very small percentage. It also offers growers the chance for more unity, especially regarding issues with intake, and sampling process. Go on, you know you want to change your vote;)
 
Last edited:

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
I'd take the addition to the passport of a simple tick box to say to my knowledge this grain complies to all UK legislation.

I mean, there is a signature box for saying I didn't hack down a rainforest to plant my bio ethanol wheat.
We also self-declare our mycotoxin risk assessment.

Our pesticide records are a self-declaration.

Our grain drying and storage records are a self declaration.

Our mass balance calc is a self declaration.

Our grain trailer disinfecting is a self declaration.

All RT does is visit on one day of the year and see that something is written down.

We're locked in to RT to even sell feed grade grain. imho, the supposed "assurance" of imports is just a smokescreen to make it look like it's assured, and as a reason to keep English and Welsh farmers enslaved into the NFU and AHDB guarantored RT, and to keep our Scots friends enslaved into SQC (AIC being one of the members/owners of SQC).

Check out the GAFTA smpling procedures No. 124 for shipped grains. They blend all the samples together before they do a test. Typically talking about 100-300 samples per boat load mixed together. So if, for example, one of the samples would have failed for 2 x mercury ppm, the shipment will not fail the mercury ppm test because the sample has been diluted to 1/200 ish before testing :rolleyes:
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
It is about the farmer who has to either sell non-assured at a discount to imports, or pay for RT stickers.

Good question to ask ourselves how do we want AHDB to help?....

Essentially work with AIC, oilseed crushers and other trade bodies to develop a standard that gives us market access (with equivalent competitiveness to imports) in a way which can work with UK sized farms and 30t lorry loads.

We've some really positive things to shout about. Massively improved traceability compared to blended grain on a boat, only UK approved pesticides, NSTS, PA1 PA2, etc. vs a lab test on a blended 25,000t boat load.

AIC currently allow a pesticide declaration for blended imported bulk grain, so why cant we have the same. I can take the buyer back to the UK farm it was produced on. Imports? No they can't do this.

Call it a pesticide declaration, or call it a new AHDB approved assurance method. Let's not argue about the really fine detail.

Currently we can't sell grain to a feed mill if grown to UK legislative standards. Thats poor.

Ive asked various people if UK legislative standard grain is safe, or if it is in any way unsafe. They've all said "of course it's safe". Let's face it, our animals are already eating it. So everyone agrees it's safe, but we we've no market access.
 

tullah

Member
Location
Linconshire
It is about the farmer who has to either sell non-assured at a discount to imports, or pay for RT stickers.

Good question to ask ourselves how do we want AHDB to help?....

Essentially work with AIC, oilseed crushers and other trade bodies to develop a standard that gives us market access (with equivalent competitiveness to imports) in a way which can work with UK sized farms and 30t lorry loads.

We've some really positive things to shout about. Massively improved traceability compared to blended grain on a boat, only UK approved pesticides, NSTS, PA1 PA2, etc. vs a lab test on a blended 25,000t boat load.

AIC currently allow a pesticide declaration for blended imported bulk grain, so why cant we have the same. I can take the buyer back to the UK farm it was produced on. Imports? No they can't do this.

Call it a pesticide declaration, or call it a new AHDB approved assurance method. Let's not argue about the really fine detail.

Currently we can't sell grain to a feed mill if grown to UK legislative standards. Thats poor.

Ive asked various people if UK legislative standard grain is safe, or if it is in any way unsafe. They've all said "of course it's safe". Let's face it, our animals are already eating it. So everyone agrees it's safe, but we we've no market access.
Why did the Nfu impose this on British farmers? The answer to this is conflicting interests. The Nfu own RT so obviously don't expect the owners to give up their control of the company that's preventing farmers from selling their grain.

The NFU, if they have any morals, should immediately endorse the above post by grass and grain so any farmers can sell their non RT grain NOW and not tomorrow, instead of prolonging the existence of this business racket.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Why did the Nfu impose this on British farmers? The answer to this is conflicting interests. The Nfu own RT so obviously don't expect the owners to give up their control of the company that's preventing farmers from selling their grain.

The NFU, if they have any morals, should immediately endorse the above post by grass and grain so any farmers can sell their non RT grain NOW and not tomorrow, instead of prolonging the existence of this business racket.
And we shouldn't have someone deciding for us that RT is all we should have available to us to gain market access. We're not kids.

We should be able to choose.

Someone grows milling wheat for a home that pays a good premium price, then they'll probably choose to stick with RT.

Farmer who grows and feeds own feed barley, but has 100t left over to sell, he should be able to sell to a feed mill in a manner which makes him competitive to imports, and so he doesn't have to take a price penalty vs imports.
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I'd take the addition to the passport of a simple tick box to say to my knowledge this grain complies to all UK legislation.

I mean, there is a signature box for saying I didn't hack down a rainforest to plant my bio ethanol wheat.

You said you were looking for a job shortly.......don't suppose you fancy going undercover taking a job at the docks overseeing the sampling and testing of imported grain? :D
 
All thats really needed is an app or something.

Load up all the data for perpetuity and then yes we can comply with our legal obligations for NROSO (once every 3 years is fine - people fix the odd leak throughout the year so an annual inspection is meaningless).

That said if some of the current AHDB have been colluding with Red Tractor as I've been lead to believe then they need to sacked.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Well no one else does it do they?!
Well the GAFTA superintendent is supposed to do it. But he doesn't lab test every sample.

Mixes it all up first in a big bucket, then resamples the bucket. It's a great way to dilute away a potential failure. In fact, it's almost guaranteed to pass the lab tests, which is exactly what you want if you've just loaded 30k tonnes on to a boat. Saves them unloading it all again.
 

Barleymow

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Ipswich
And we shouldn't have someone deciding for us that RT is all we should have available to us to gain market access. We're not kids.

We should be able to choose.

Someone grows milling wheat for a home that pays a good premium price, then they'll probably choose to stick with RT.

Farmer who grows and feeds own feed barley, but has 100t left over to sell, he should be able to sell to a feed mill in a manner which makes him competitive to imports, and so he doesn't have to take a price penalty vs imports.
I hope I can sell milling wheat without red tractor they have lost my support
 
Well the GAFTA superintendent is supposed to do it. But he doesn't lab test every sample.

Mixes it all up first in a big bucket, then resamples the bucket. It's a great way to dilute away a potential failure. In fact, it's almost guaranteed to pass the lab tests, which is exactly what you want if you've just loaded 30k tonnes on to a boat. Saves them unloading it all again.

Its very difficult to find any evidence of what tests are done though isn't it?
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
So, I agree but like above we dont/shouldnt need another scheme, a tick box declaration is all I want and true market price for my unassured produce.
Guessing because they are all in bed together, RT will present and RT Light version, after all they'll be wanting our money somehow.
The whole thing stinks, ADHB just sat on the fence colluding with the others "seen to be" doing something but in reality spinning out yet some more. They are like MP's, simply full of shite and are certainly not to be trusted.
However I await to actually see some action from them, then maybe I will change my tune.
But if they dont get off the fence ASAP and actually sort something then lets vote them out. We have endured too much fluffing around, non communication from the shower that are RT/ADHB/AIC and that disgrace of an organisation the Non Farmers Union
Bring it on
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
I hope I can sell milling wheat without red tractor they have lost my support
If there's a new pesticide declaration tick box method, I'd hope some human consumption homes will allow it. Afterall, many of them accept imports that have a few lab tests done on a blended sample.

Its very difficult to find any evidence of what tests are done though isn't it?
Even if we get some examples, no-one is going to volunteer an example lab report that has just tested moisture and bushel.

So the only likely examples offered will be the decent ones.

We need access to evey shipment over say 12 months. Then examine the results.

Half a dozen examples out of say 200 isn't going to tell us anything.

If we can't get the result for every shipment, then something is wrong. Not only is something wrong, but no-one has been checking up to see what tests have been done, and if the grain has passed the tests.
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
Its very difficult to find any evidence of what tests are done though isn't it?
Little to no testing gets done on imports you can be sure. As I understand it, with the exception on a few random surveillance test by government, the decision on what tests to do and how often lies in the hands of the importer. The decision to test is made by the same business who bears the cost of any testing and the consequences of any consignment failing.... If any testing is going to be done it is going to be done before the ship is loaded not after it has arrived in the UK
 

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