AI in Suckler herds

[topground]

Not wishing to hijack the Bull policy thread I will do the decent thing and ask the question here about the use of AI in suckler herds given the cost of a decent team of bulls, the risk of introducing disease into the herd with new bulls and bulls performing when they need to.
If you use AI on your suckler herd rather than keeping bulls, how many cows do you run and what is your calving interval?
I only use AI on mine but I only have 20, all but one Pd in calf, the first is due to calve on 31st March and the last on 11 May. 1.3 straws per pregnancy.
I have a system that uses Kaymars, insemination 12 hours after standing heat or colour change spotted and cows that are happy to run into the yard for a handful of sugar beet shreds.
How big is the largest suckler herd only using AI?

 

[AGN76]

I ai 'd 28 this year. Biggest so far .
Very similar results to you, but slightly tighter I'd say. No kaymars, just near obsessive observation.

Actually on reading your post again, they aren't as tight, but we ai as soon as they bull, so can start Calving mid Feb, but here May calves just don't perform so everything must calve by end of April.

 

[S J H]

Our neighbour has around 30 and only uses AI. He has a pretty tight calving, and doesn't have many barroners. Doesn't use any aids, genus come out to him, but he'd probably have even better conception if he did it himself. Rather than waiting for them to turn up in the afternoon.

 

[AGN76]

Our neighbour has around 30 and only uses AI. He has a pretty tight calving, and doesn't have many barroners. Doesn't use any aids, genus come out to him, but he'd probably have even better conception if he did it himself. Rather than waiting for them to turn up in the afternoon.

That's good going when not doing it himself

 

[Andrew1983]

Planning to do 12 heifers with something easy calving this winter.

In the past we have synchronised them but not had the best of results and it seemed to put some of the heifers completely off cycling. We used a bull to clear up.

One year we tried it I think we got 3 out of 14 in calf, that was following the vets program and using AI man, the bull picked up 8 or 9 over the next few months but there were a couple that never held at all. Very quiet well handled heifers too. That's 7 or 8 years ago now.

I'm having yet another bad autumn calving of heifers again now though to an easy calving lim bull. It's at the stage where I'm considering not putting any heifers in calf until spring but think il give AI one last chance with maybe BB sexed semen? Think il need to house the heifers by end of July and feed straw to try and stop them over growing their calves.

 

[kneedeep]

Planning to do 12 heifers with something easy calving this winter.

In the past we have synchronised them but not had the best of results and it seemed to put some of the heifers completely off cycling. We used a bull to clear up.

One year we tried it I think we got 3 out of 14 in calf, that was following the vets program and using AI man, the bull picked up 8 or 9 over the next few months but there were a couple that never held at all. Very quiet well handled heifers too. That's 7 or 8 years ago now.

I'm having yet another bad autumn calving of heifers again now though to an easy calving lim bull. It's at the stage where I'm considering not putting any heifers in calf until spring but think il give AI one last chance with maybe BB sexed semen? Think il need to house the heifers by end of July and feed straw to try and stop them over growing their calves.

Had a very similar experience as you with same method
4 out of 18
Bull got em within six weeks though, it was an expensive experiment.
Our AI man recommended kaymars and natural service next time.
I'd be interested to hear of other people's experiences, as not being in cattle country we're a bit out on a limb.
Ps.
The odd cow that was in bulling when he was here got a straw of BB ,
I think we got 5 out of 7 success with them.

 

[AGN76]

Planning to do 12 heifers with something easy calving this winter.


I'm having yet another bad autumn calving of heifers again now though to an easy calving lim bull. It's at the stage where I'm considering not putting any heifers in calf until spring but think il give AI one last chance with maybe BB sexed semen? Think il need to house the heifers by end of July and feed straw to try and stop them over growing their calves.

If your struggling calving to a lim, without getting into a big debate about blues, how is a Blue going to help? We have been terrible at calving heifers until this year when we calved them to MillBrook Alistair and had most, but not all calving un assisted. A massive improvement!

 

[AGN76]

Had a very similar experience as you with same method
4 out of 18
Bull got em within six weeks though, it was an expensive experiment.
Our AI man recommended kaymars and natural service next time.
I'd be interested to hear of other people's experiences, as not being in cattle country we're a bit out on a limb.
Ps.
The odd cow that was in bulling when he was here got a straw of BB ,
I think we got 5 out of 7 success with them.

I see a lot of synchronization of heifers through work, and they are either very good, or very bad! If I was to do it at home I would sync them to bull together, leave them, then catch them 3 weeks later on a natural heat
Best results I've had was on some dairy heifers, on sugar beet, 75% conception to 1st service to sexed semen on natural heats

 

[Andrew1983]

If your struggling calving to a lim, without getting into a big debate about blues, how is a Blue going to help? We have been terrible at calving heifers until this year when we calved them to MillBrook Alistair and had most, but not all calving un assisted. A massive improvement!

That's a fair point, I just fancy trying a BB for a change and thought if sexed semen used normally heifer calves are easier to get out.

So if we go down natural route when is best time to AI, we used to see them bulling one day and get AI man nxt morning. That was in the days of plenty dairy farms round us and he was on his rounds anyway. They have all gone bar one and the nearest AI man Is at least 40 miles away so it will become an expensive job if he's back and forth for every one.

 

[M-J-G]

AI heifers on a synchro programme here for 1 cycle and then bull after that. Getting 65-70% to AI. We also AI the odd pure cow on heat detection which works well but is too time consuming for doing with too many, especially at grass.

Our Autumn calvers get 1 AI on a synchro programme and 1 chance with a bull 3 weeks later.

 

[Woolless]

AI heifers on a synchro programme here for 1 cycle and then bull after that. Getting 65-70% to AI. We also AI the odd pure cow on heat detection which works well but is too time consuming for doing with too many, especially at grass.

Our Autumn calvers get 1 AI on a synchro programme and 1 chance with a bull 3 weeks later.

Martin, what sort of cow to bull ratio would you get away with to sweep up after the synchro and AI? If I was to run some sucklers, I like the idea of using premium AI bulls but with natural back up. Would save on bull costs, too.

 

[Robert81]

Local guy does 700 beef heifers a year. He reckons cows and calves are too labour intensive to handle and split to inseminate. He runs 2500 sucklers so only needs 350 replacements a year. He's into synchro and fixed time A.I

Really depends on your layout, if you're ring fenced with access to descent pens it could work

 

[AGN76]

That's a fair point, I just fancy trying a BB for a change and thought if sexed semen used normally heifer calves are easier to get out.

So if we go down natural route when is best time to AI, we used to see them bulling one day and get AI man nxt morning. That was in the days of plenty dairy farms round us and he was on his rounds anyway. They have all gone bar one and the nearest AI man Is at least 40 miles away so it will become an expensive job if he's back and forth for every one.

As far as I know the only sexed blue bulls are not easy calving, so I would say use Newpole Easy from Genus and hope for a heifer! (I've seen a few dairy heifers calve to him with no problems)
As for timing, when you are relying on someone else you only really have 1 choice - their time! When I was training I was told to serve heifers at their peak and cows 12 hours later.
I would consider syncing, leaving, then picking them up 3 weeks later, at least you should get them all within say 4 days of each other.

 

[M-J-G]

Martin, what sort of cow to bull ratio would you get away with to sweep up after the synchro and AI? If I was to run some sucklers, I like the idea of using premium AI bulls but with natural back up. Would save on bull costs, too.

A lot will depend on AI success, it has to be kept in mind that the repeats will be synchronised too, so it can be a lot of work in a short time for a sweeper bull. Although they will usually be spread over 2-3 days as opposed to 1.
30 cows would still be ok if AI goes well and you're using an mature bull.

It would be worth splitting the batch if in any doubt, that way you'll stagger the repeats and spread the work out for the bull.

 

[le bon paysan]

Local guy does 700 beef heifers a year. He reckons cows and calves are too labour intensive to handle and split to inseminate. He runs 2500 sucklers so only needs 350 replacements a year. He's into synchro and fixed time A.I

Really depends on your layout, if you're ring fenced with access to descent pens it could work

Local to where?

 

[GenuineRisk]

I would advise against Blue sexed semen on heifers - unless they ever do N.Easy sexed! Which I doubt as he is always sold out. As said above, if syncing heifers for AI, attention to detail is key, diet previous 6-8 weeks plus regular observation over the bulling period - we do every four hours or so till about 10-11pm, then from about 06:00 next morning when we're doing flushes, which is exactly the same process for the recips. Sexed semen is by nature a stressed product, so you have to put in a lot more effort as well to get reasonable conception rates.


Blues on heifers wouldn't be my preferred route, the sexed semen available is, in my view, more for pedigree breeders or suckler cows. We've calved a few heifers into Blues no problem but you would be sensible to have the heifers under CCTV come calving, as you would probably need to pull some. Not ideal for heifers, only had to do it because complete last resort and our stock Bulls are great easy-calving bulls!

If using AI in general over synced sucklers cows, same procedure applies and I think it would only be really successful if you do the AIing yourself (which we do) rather than relying on on an AI Tech coming in. Unless, like us, you have one virtually on your doorstep who comes in and does the really awkward ones!! Shameless plug but anyone wanting a proven easy calving Blue bull for sucklers, Greystone Carbon has to be top of anyone's list. Available from us or UK Sires to your chosen AI depot.

 

[Willy A]

Using AI mainly to breed replacements and lets me keep my old tried and tested bull into old age.
AIed 19 this year and think 16 out of that held. Bull went in after so he could have done more of my repeats.
Last year I synronised some and it was a disaster. None held. Had better heats 3 weeks later.
Natural heats seem to work best for me on cows.
In past years I noticed that soon after bull goes in with cows I usually get 3 or 4 cows bulling together and get repeats 3 weeks later. So this year I AIed these cows after bull was finished with them. Think bull tends to pick a favourite and stick with her.
I do my own AI 12 hours after standing heat and just watch for cows bulling.
Bull normally in after 3 weeks of AI, but this year I had a lot of late calving cows so I AIed for 6 weeks.
Fingers crossed it looks like next year most cows will be calved in a 9 week spread.