CharcoalWally
Member
- Location
- West of Scotland
Oh yes, you can get easy calving bulls , but your bull will be dead by the time you find out how he calves?
AI in sucklers
- Thread starter Woolless
- Start date
- Location
- Fife
Yeah. But if he's from a known strain of easy calving bulls why is that an issue?
I know of people who tup ewe lambs with ram lambs. Same principle applies, sire is dead before progeny is born.
CharcoalWally
Member
- Location
- West of Scotland
No issue really. Just that you'll never have him to use again if he turns out to be a really good one. Depends what you want.
- Location
- Fife
To get cows in calf as cheap and efficiently as possible.
CharcoalWally
Member
- Location
- West of Scotland
Which is where a really easy calving bull is your best friend.
livestock 1
Member
- Location
- Fife
Which is where a really easy calving bull is your best friend.
My thinking is if I can buy a yearling bulls use him then kill him sire price per calf will be negligible.
CharcoalWally
Member
- Location
- West of Scotland
Yes, I thought that was what you were driving at.
Argument from the other side of the fence .. .....
If , you're lucky enough to work with a really easy calving bull, ( that also leaves great calves) , that bull strips out a lot of time and labour costings from the system, as you don't have to spend time calving cows when you could be doing something else. You will have reduced vet bills and healthcare costs. You will have a cow that should be up and at 'em right away, firing on all cylinders ready to conceive as quick as possible for her next calving. Your cows also have a chance of a longer life if everything else is taken care of for them, therefore reducing replacement costs.
An easy calving bull will help you with steps in this direction . My only quibble with what you're saying is that a bull will be killed before you ever know the score with him, and your system goes right back to the start again each year, with the fresh risk of an unknown quantity bull added each year.
A senior bull being culled off a good farm when he's still in fettle will probably net not too far off what your young bull being slaughtered will, plus you've had a lifetime's work off him.
I'm not criticising your idea, just pointing out a different view.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
I've done a few sums and got bull cost to £67/cow/year two different ways (over 12 cows). Dearer than AI but without the work. Added hassle when he's not working particularly over the winter though.
livestock 1
Member
I can remember when the adas calculations for purchase price of a stock bull were a years worth of male calves from the herd.
So modest figures could be 7 x 700 = £4900 sounds a lot to spend
I haven’t heard this calculation for a long time mentioned maybe 30 years or so
Suckler profitably has obviously changed
Just shows
- Location
- Perthshire, Scotland
The calculation I know of is the equivalent of 10 prime steers. In 2018 we averaged £1450ish. Still don’t think we could justify £14,500 for a bull but a budget of £9-10,000 is do-able
livestock 1
Member
I think the calculation was male suckler calves if I remember correctly.
Yours sound a bit older
Maybe it was 10 rather than a years worth that sounds more realistic especially on 70 cows
livestock 1
Member
Sorry I’ve just read prime steers
AGN76
Member
- Location
- north Wales
Assuming he works properly for the entire period.
I had a small herd of firstly multi sucklers and then single sucklers, AI for everything (better bulls than I could afford) just had them in field by yard over serving, let them in everyday to a bit of food and into the crush if ready. worked ok for about 20yrs.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
There is that, certainly. However, I would help myself by not buying a cossetted, feed pumped bull.
I'd be happy enough to synchronise and AI. It's the returns that would cause me the problem.
Woolless
Member
- Location
- Berwickshire, Scottish Borders
Were you just observing them for coming bulling? Part of my problem is I work off farm midweek. A bull would be on farm all week!
Yes we just checked for bulling every morning, then let them in the yard, I did rear Heifer replacements on contract and we used to syncro them, we did hire a bull in once to get all the cows calving tightened up, the other method is buy an old bull, use him and sell him again.
For that many cows I would expect it to be higher than that. How many years did you expect him to last and what cull value did you put?
None of our bulls are added hassle, they just run with in calf animals for most of the year when they aren't working