Aiming for 3.3t/ac 1st wheat

[warksfarmer]

Obviously not this year!! but longer term does anybody run with the idea of spending a lot less on inputs but then expecting a lower yield? Or is yield still king?

Current market prices are good, but with the added cost of the inputs, machinery, fuel etc is yield still king or could we think about:

1. Plough instead of a 2 pass expensive herbicide strategy. Plough and then a press will cost £35/acre what does the chems cost?

2. Farm saved seed only buying in a couple of tonne of new seed to keep growing on?

3. Only apply N and knock the rest of the nutrients on the head.

4. Then a couple of fungicides when required and throw the 'T' program out the window.

5. Then a routine glyphosate prior to harvest to keep things tidy?

So say 3.3t/ac 1st wheat at £180/t = £600/ac output against probably an input spend of £80-£90/acre. Maybe spent a bit more on getting the crop established because of the plough and press approach but the saving on input is a lot more?

Just interested if anybody goes with this because running with a full chem program and some extra nutrients to lift yield to say 3.8t/ac costs an awful lot more money to get another 0.5t/ac to sell?

 

[B&B Pig Man]

Obviously not this year!! but longer term does anybody run with the idea of spending a lot less on inputs but then expecting a lower yield? Or is yield still king?

Current market prices are good, but with the added cost of the inputs, machinery, fuel etc is yield still king or could we think about:

1. Plough instead of a 2 pass expensive herbicide strategy. Plough and then a press will cost £35/acre what does the chems cost?

2. Farm saved seed only buying in a couple of tonne of new seed to keep growing on?

3. Only apply N and knock the rest of the nutrients on the head.

4. Then a couple of fungicides when required and throw the 'T' program out the window.

5. Then a routine glyphosate prior to harvest to keep things tidy?

So say 3.3t/ac 1st wheat at £180/t = £600/ac output against probably an input spend of £80-£90/acre. Maybe spent a bit more on getting the crop established because of the plough and press approach but the saving on input is a lot more?

Just interested if anybody goes with this because running with a full chem program and some extra nutrients to lift yield to say 3.8t/ac costs an awful lot more money to get another 0.5t/ac to sell?

I'm fairly sure this has to be the way forward.

Not just with the plough though.
If a good stale seedbed can be achieved, a good Roundup spray pre-drilling on a min-til system will work just as well in my opinion.

 

[franklin]

A quick discussion with my boys (5 and 3) last night left me to give them four pearls of wisdom:

1) Never buy a field of over 75% clay.
2) Dont be suckered into fancy kit - there is a reason why we have ploughed for centuries.
3) Listen, but dont be sold to, by the agronomist.
4) Dont try to do anything too different.

So for next year I will be ploughing anything with a crop on, and thrashing the rest about with a tined cultivator. New c1 seed for next times seed. Sticking with as many fingicides as I feel necessary based on decent generics, CCC, etc. Applying foliar nutrients are required.

And baling everything, with a good lot of muck coming back in.

Contractor ploughing is now as cheap as I can do it myself, probably cheaper. I paid £22/ac last year and hope to get it less if they are working fallow in the off-peak time. Cultipress it myself.

The goal has to be still maximum output, but I think in part knowing realistically what my land is capable of is the key. After rent, work and all that I want to see as good as £200/ac cash left in my pocket.

Cant agree with point three, as I am obliged to replace what I take off. But I will do it in a more clever way.

I dont see 8.5t/ha as an unrealistic target. But at the same time I will be choosing varieties that wont buckle under one disease epidemic. And high natural specific weight.

 

[franklin]

I'm fairly sure this has to be the way forward.

Not just with the plough though.
If a good stale seedbed can be achieved, a good Roundup spray pre-drilling on a min-til system will work just as well in my opinion.

I think a key for me is to avoid disc and tyne cultivators - ground is either too hard for the tynes which bring up clods, or too wet for the discs and smear. So less expensive kit and work faster.

 

[B&B Pig Man]

I think a key for me is to avoid disc and tyne cultivators - ground is either too hard for the tynes which bring up clods, or too wet for the discs and smear. So less expensive kit and work faster.

As you know I rum a very old pigtail drag - works for me in almost every condition now. ( sometimes just swap points between 'a' shares and standard points.

It's no secret to anybody that I think this new machinery lark is as joke!
Far too many farmers fall for the sales talk.

It's not in a reps interest to tell you that the old drag that has worked for the last 40 years, will still keep doing just as good a job!

 

[warksfarmer]

Yes point 3 was a bit specific to me as my P & K indexes are 4's anyway. Whether or not its all available is another matter.

I also have an option to plough everything this year via a contractor at £14/ac and I add fuel (about £20/ac all in) so I am thinking of doing it which coming from somebody who quite frankly has been anti plough for a number of years is a bit strange. If I had to hook a plough onto my own tractor and do it, then I wouldn't but the fact that all I need to supply is some maps and then a daily checkup on depth its looking like a very attractive proposition. A quick follow up with either a set of rolls or a cultipress within 24 hours would leave me with 'okish' seedbeds to then be followed up by a fast pass with a combi drill or vaderstad.

 

[warksfarmer]

As you know I rum a very old pigtail drag - works for me in almost every condition now. ( sometimes just swap points between 'a' shares and standard points.

It's no secret to anybody that I think this new machinery lark is as joke!
Far too many farmers fall for the sales talk.

It's not in a reps interest to tell you that the old drag that has worked for the last 40 years, will still keep doing just as good a job!

How many passes are you making though?

 

[B&B Pig Man]

How many passes are you making though?

Just the one - and at 6m, usually doing 10kph the ground is usually soon covered!

I do then go in with a flatlift - but that is my personal preference, as I feel my soils need the 'lift' - on many other farms this wouldn't be needed.

 

[warksfarmer]

Just the one - and at 6m, usually doing 10kph the ground is usually soon covered!

I do then go in with a flatlift - but that is my personal preference, as I feel my soils need the 'lift' - on many other farms this wouldn't be needed.

Would a trio not do the same in one pass?

 

[B&B Pig Man]

Would a trio not do the same in one pass?

Maybe.
(My flatlift has discs - so in theory could just use that).

I like the pigtail as soon after the combine as possible though. Gets a good weed chit and some tilth. If conditions turn bad, and I can't get on with the flatlift - I'll go straight in with the tine drill.

I like to ability to do things quick - so if the weather changes I can get on.

Trying to do everything with a trio in one pass, would IMHO slow the job up.

 

[warksfarmer]

If you flatlift everything at 3m and running a pigtail at 6m your effective working width for both passes is 3m though, which is what a trio would be?

Not saying your wrong because thats what we used to do 1 x pigtail after combine at 2 inches, leave green up then in again at 4 inches then green up spray and drill.

 

[B&B Pig Man]

If you flatlift everything at 3m and running a pigtail at 6m your effective working width for both passes is 3m though, which is what a trio would be?

Not saying your wrong because thats what we used to do 1 x pigtail after combine at 2 inches, leave green up then in again at 4 inches then green up spray and drill.

Maybe you are right.

I've never run a trio, so don't know what finish they leave?!
Always looks a bit rough over the hedge!

A trio would need buying though. From what I've seen they are not cheap.
With my system, my machines cost very little, and I'm hopefully more flexible. I think this is important when considering the last few years weather!
I like the ability to tamper with my system to suit the year.

Would be boring if we all did the same thing though!

 

[Elmsted]

Not suprised what goes around comes around. Time for farmers to get back to basics and wrestle back control of what they do, not what they are told by spreadsheets and input marketing.

Have luckily always avoided the lot.

 

[warksfarmer]

Not suprised what goes around comes around. Time for farmers to get back to basics and wrestle back control of what they do, not what they are told by spreadsheets and input marketing.

Have luckily always avoided the lot.

What is your basic plan for a 1st wheat from start to finish then? Obviously seasons differ so you may have to alter slightly but it would be good to know how you approach growing the crop?

 

[Elmsted]

Plant ASAP from 60 days after longest day as start point. Grow on home grown seed gravity seperated to 10:1 ratio to ensure highest vigour and genetic potential. Seed dress with Gaucho. Never plant, if scrapers on planting kit are needed. Delayed harvests mean one has less time to meet daylengh soil temp criteria. Never min till. Every 2 days increase seed numbers by 5%. Never use a pre emergent herbicide. In grass weed situations. Use avadex granules. Pre winter ensure that threshold for aphids is find one kill it combined with autumn CCC and foliar feeds of plant nutrients & sulphur.
First N apply 60 days after shortest day if season allows. This to be minimum 40% of total planned N. Start tissue testing on weekly basis. Apply a broad leave weed killer. And if needed a grass weed killer. Apply more CCC and further insecticide. And probably a fungicide somewhere between GS 30 to 32.
Apply remaining N as tissue tests show. In one application. Walk away until just before ear emergence then apply fungicide with insecticide and any foliar feeds tissue tests show are needed. If needed apply glyphosphate pre harvest.

And here is one I made/cooked earlier. But the key is mixing plant physiology with flexibility. And concentrating on cost per tonne to produce. Avoid marketing and buying new machinery.

You asked straight reply.

 

[warksfarmer]

Interesting thanks.

 

[franklin]

I think a lot of expense comes from the "new" chemistry of stacked pre-em, then holding spray, then Atlantis.

Growing barley and oats have been a revaltion as they yield even with moderate BG, and in most cases manage to smother all but the worst out themselves.

B&B Pig Man - as with all these posts, comes down to land type. Number of passes etc comes down to how nice your soil is. Very easy to see what happens if you try and tits about with heavy land this year

 

[B&B Pig Man]

I think a lot of expense comes from the "new" chemistry of stacked pre-em, then holding spray, then Atlantis.

Growing barley and oats have been a revaltion as they yield even with moderate BG, and in most cases manage to smother all but the worst out themselves.

B&B Pig Man - as with all these posts, comes down to land type. Number of passes etc comes down to how nice your soil is. Very easy to see what happens if you try and tits about with heavy land this year

I am shocked as to how quickly my land has improved since we stopped ploughing it!
I'd say 75% of our land was in as good condition as I've ever seen it to work with - last back end!

 

[Clive]

I am shocked as to how quickly my land has improved since we stopped ploughing it!
I'd say 75% of our land was in as good condition as I've ever seen it to work with - last back end!

Be brave and Try not moving it at all - the results might shock you !

 

[Clive]

I don't see why we can't grow 4t wheat with 3t costs - that's my plan for the next few years anyway !

I think doing so requires a fundamental resetting of your mind however ! The answers are there and always have been , just not sponsored by syngenta and Yara !

 

[B&B Pig Man]

Be brave and Try not moving it at all - the results might shock you !

That would involve buying a new drill though!
I don't like spending it!

 

[Clive]

That would involve buying a new drill though!
I don't like spending it!

There was a morre on here for £2500 not long ago would o the job 90% of the time I reckon - it's a myth that you need to spend lots on new shiney machinery in fact that's step one in the fundamental change of mindset required IMO !

 

[B&B Pig Man]

There was a morre on here for £2500 not long ago would o the job 90% of the time I reckon - it's a myth that you need to spend lots on new shiney machinery in fact that's step one in the fundamental change of mindset required IMO !

I am tempted!

( never thought I'd utter those words! )

Trouble is, I've got my land in such good condition with my current system - I'm worried about changing it again!

'If it ain't broke, don't fix it' ?!

 

[franklin]

Last back end I have never seen land so terrible as here. I was never a plough fan, but one way or another we have to move it deep if we want to plant a winter crop or the water just sits on the top. I appreciate that poughing it will just move the water lower down, but if the sun wont get it off the surface, then the cultivator must. What was our autumn rainfall last year? 5 inch plus a month onto saturated ground? Blue clay is not known for its free draining nature. Slowly permeable is verging on taking the pee.

I would prefer not to plough, but you cant fault it for drying out land. And if you have a rent to pay etc then you do what you need to do to get that soil drying.

With that in mind, I think I am going to do some mole ploughing tomorrow and get the pigtail out.