Aiming for 3.3t/ac 1st wheat

[JCfarmer]

Yes point 3 was a bit specific to me as my P & K indexes are 4's anyway. Whether or not its all available is another matter.

I also have an option to plough everything this year via a contractor at £14/ac and I add fuel (about £20/ac all in) so I am thinking of doing it which coming from somebody who quite frankly has been anti plough for a number of years is a bit strange. If I had to hook a plough onto my own tractor and do it, then I wouldn't but the fact that all I need to supply is some maps and then a daily checkup on depth its looking like a very attractive proposition. A quick follow up with either a set of rolls or a cultipress within 24 hours would leave me with 'okish' seedbeds to then be followed up by a fast pass with a combi drill or vaderstad.

A fast pass with a combi thats what I like to hear! Thats what we do behind the discordon or the pough and roll if poss, 80% of land light to medium, only plough really for second wheat, mintill heavy ground though and this is looking better for it. Rape put in on shakerator. I find our combi cheap to run and very very versatile and often drill at 10kph. I was interested in the Muzri strip drill but gone off the idea, at least for the moment! Sorry going a little off topic.

 

[Wombat]

I always aim for about 3.25t/ acre, its alright if you have land that can grow roots to push for 4+ tonnes an acre and expect to get it but our sh@te is too particular and its preference is grass, wheat and slugs in that order. I can spend a lot of money and push for 4t but if the weather does like it has for the last year you end up praying for 2.5t with a 4t cost base. Best to take a reasonable margin and not leave it 2 exposed.

 

[Clive]

Obviously not this year!! but longer term does anybody run with the idea of spending a lot less on inputs but then expecting a lower yield? Or is yield still king?

Current market prices are good, but with the added cost of the inputs, machinery, fuel etc is yield still king or could we think about:

1. Plough instead of a 2 pass expensive herbicide strategy. Plough and then a press will cost £35/acre what does the chems cost?

2. Farm saved seed only buying in a couple of tonne of new seed to keep growing on?

3. Only apply N and knock the rest of the nutrients on the head.

4. Then a couple of fungicides when required and throw the 'T' program out the window.

5. Then a routine glyphosate prior to harvest to keep things tidy?

Problems with your plan as I see them

1. Why will ploughing save herbicides ? People that plough still have weeds and grass weed issues

2. I would say that makes sense regardless of yield aspirations ?

3. BIG mistake I think ! Personally I would think you will see better returns reducing N and spending the savings on other nutrition especially S

4. Agree but I think you can't plan this and should take each season as it comes

5. Again sensible regardless of yield aspirations if for no other reason than cheaper harvest and drying most years

 

[Rob Holmes]

Seed costs are small with regards GM, and our own experience in dressing FSS was is wasn't much cheaper than buying new seed in, and a lot more hassle too!

 

[Clive]

Seed costs are small with regards GM, and our own experience in dressing FSS was is wasn't much cheaper than buying new seed in, and a lot more hassle too!

Agree but I would farm save now more so I can dress out a much better seed than I can buy rather than just to save a few £

 

[Rob Holmes]

Yeah, i didn't look at it that way, we had some shocking seed this year!

 

[RBM]

Agree but I would farm save now more so I can dress out a much better seed than I can buy rather than just to save a few £

Agree with this, you can nearly allwys dress better than you can buy in, we dressed out to a minimum of 46tgw this year, which is our benchmark and when you consider the crap that has been sent out this year, who is in control of the seed quality?

 

[rob1]

Being devils advocate why not just go organic ? work with nature chuck some muck on take what the season gives you ? On the other hand spend a fortune on this that and the other magic potions and snake oil and hope for 4.5 tons to pay for it all. To be sensible there must be a middle way that gives the best return for least input and surely the most important part of that must be the soil, IE getting it into the best possible health and structure, now I believe that means less soil movement and more OM to hopefully help water percolation in heavy rain and water retention in dry times. Then working to get the right nutrition into the plants without feeding the disease

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Can anyone think back a few years and tell me who has been saying for all that time that farming can be simple? Get the basics right, and other pearls of wisdom? Anyone..............?

Glorified chisel ploughs I call half these massive implements.

 

[dragman]

A quick discussion with my boys (5 and 3) last night left me to give them four pearls of wisdom:

1) Never buy a field of over 75% clay.
2) Dont be suckered into fancy kit - there is a reason why we have ploughed for centuries.
3) Listen, but dont be sold to, by the agronomist.
4) Dont try to do anything too different.

So for next year I will be ploughing anything with a crop on, and thrashing the rest about with a tined cultivator. New c1 seed for next times seed. Sticking with as many fingicides as I feel necessary based on decent generics, CCC, etc. Applying foliar nutrients are required.

And baling everything, with a good lot of muck coming back in.

Contractor ploughing is now as cheap as I can do it myself, probably cheaper. I paid £22/ac last year and hope to get it less if they are working fallow in the off-peak time. Cultipress it myself.

The goal has to be still maximum output, but I think in part knowing realistically what my land is capable of is the key. After rent, work and all that I want to see as good as £200/ac cash left in my pocket.

Cant agree with point three, as I am obliged to replace what I take off. But I will do it in a more clever way.

I dont see 8.5t/ha as an unrealistic target. But at the same time I will be choosing varieties that wont buckle under one disease epidemic. And high natural specific weight.

A quick discussion with my boys (5 and 3) last night left me to give them four pearls of wisdom:

1) Never buy a field of over 75% clay.
2) Dont be suckered into fancy kit - there is a reason why we have ploughed for centuries.
3) Listen, but dont be sold to, by the agronomist.
4) Dont try to do anything too different.

So for next year I will be ploughing anything with a crop on, and thrashing the rest about with a tined cultivator. New c1 seed for next times seed. Sticking with as many fingicides as I feel necessary based on decent generics, CCC, etc. Applying foliar nutrients are required.

And baling everything, with a good lot of muck coming back in.

Contractor ploughing is now as cheap as I can do it myself, probably cheaper. I paid £22/ac last year and hope to get it less if they are working fallow in the off-peak time. Cultipress it myself.

The goal has to be still maximum output, but I think in part knowing realistically what my land is capable of is the key. After rent, work and all that I want to see as good as £200/ac cash left in my pocket.

Cant agree with point three, as I am obliged to replace what I take off. But I will do it in a more clever way.

I dont see 8.5t/ha as an unrealistic target. But at the same time I will be choosing varieties that wont buckle under one disease epidemic. And high natural specific weight.

Hi static nice to hear some one working land properly i do not say plough every year but you still cannot beat ploughing 1 in 3 we never had the big problem with grass weeds i think it is about time alot went back to basics.All this min till and direct drilling has been tried before and what happened alot went back to ploughing to t5ry and get rid of grass weeds.I cannot see how it is cheaper to have a contractor do the ploughing i think a good man a decent tractor and plough could get over the acres.

 

[rob1]

If the plough was that good blackgrass would not be enemy number one

 

[dragman]

If the plough was that good blackgrass would not be enemy number one

I am not saying the plough is that good but i think it helps geeting rid of some of the grass weeds you no the saying every little helps

 

[franklin]

Same farm (different fields). March 2013 ploughing. You can imagine how that has set now. September 2011 ploughing after oats. October 2010 ploughing.

Time and place for the plough. I dont believe for a minute that it does any good for weeds unless you are on land that can be spring / late autumn ploughed and see if turn over real nice. But even I can see that the spring ploughing this year has dried that soil out a treat. Too much, I hear you say. Land needed drying out this summer and if you come visit me I will show you many, many acres of failed OSR, wheat and barley.

I have a lot of fallow. I aim to sort it out without the plough. But if it comes wet again I will be damned if I am going to sit patiently for the never never. Out will come Mr Plough, and if it sets like concrete I will grind it to dust with the power harrow and then subsoil it. Lack of moisture here is a transient issue.

 

[tr250]

Do people think arable farming is sustainable without livestock. our area was i cattle grazing area dad remembers it when there was very little corn around vast majority ploughed up now i think some of the arable farmers around are still living off it now with soil structure and organic matter our stock is biggest part of our business and i think muck and rotational grass helps a lot

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I've also always said that 3/4 of Warwickshire should be permanent grass so, no, from what I've seen I don't think arable is sustainable without stock. The best yielding customers I have all run cattle too.

I have just posted back to a mixed customer all his PK Mg results. 1350 acres, every single result absolutely ideal in every way on grass and arable.

 

[dragman]

Same farm (different fields). March 2013 ploughing. You can imagine how that has set now. September 2011 ploughing after oats. October 2010 ploughing.

Time and place for the plough. I dont believe for a minute that it does any good for weeds unless you are on land that can be spring / late autumn ploughed and see if turn over real nice. But even I can see that the spring ploughing this year has dried that soil out a treat. Too much, I hear you say. Land needed drying out this summer and if you come visit me I will show you many, many acres of failed OSR, wheat and barley.

I have a lot of fallow. I aim to sort it out without the plough. But if it comes wet again I will be damned if I am going to sit patiently for the never never. Out will come Mr Plough, and if it sets like concrete I will grind it to dust with the power harrow and then subsoil it. Lack of moisture here is a transient issue.

Same farm (different fields). March 2013 ploughing. You can imagine how that has set now. September 2011 ploughing after oats. October 2010 ploughing.

Time and place for the plough. I dont believe for a minute that it does any good for weeds unless you are on land that can be spring / late autumn ploughed and see if turn over real nice. But even I can see that the spring ploughing this year has dried that soil out a treat. Too much, I hear you say. Land needed drying out this summer and if you come visit me I will show you many, many acres of failed OSR, wheat and barley.

I have a lot of fallow. I aim to sort it out without the plough. But if it comes wet again I will be damned if I am going to sit patiently for the never never. Out will come Mr Plough, and if it sets like concrete I will grind it to dust with the power harrow and then subsoil it. Lack of moisture here is a transient issue.

That looks like mans land static i can see why you dont like to put the plough in it unless you have to that will take some working down.How many acres of that sort of land do you have.

 

[dragman]

Would like to visit your farm and have a look round to look at some mans land thought that what i was ploughing yesterday was strong but did not come up like that i bet you are pulling your hair out with that

 

[franklin]

That bit thats a bit "knotty" is by far and away not the toughest stuff we have

 

[dragman]

That bit thats a bit "knotty" is by far and away not the toughest stuff we have

What are you going to work that down with cultipress or power harrow there is one thing hope you have got tracks to go over it or it wont be a very good ride with tyres dont think you would get the speed with a cultipress with tyres that is one good thing about rubber tracks.As i said imust come and have a look round and have a word with you when it is convenient with you.

 

[franklin]

Plenty of tracks. Not decided yet. More frosts forecast, so no rush. Probably too hard for the press.

 

[tr250]

not convinced cultipress is the machine for spring use pushes it down too much thing p harrow or tines be better