Alarming aspirations from latest climate report...

[holwellcourtfarm]

This new report by a group of UK academics on the impact of livestock on climate warming makes interesting reading in relation to Joseph Poore's work:

https://d1hu4133i4rt3z.cloudfront.net/attachments/941/941978-4275d5bf4c98bbd387d40ece0f2110b5.pdf

It is not the full story and, notably, has no contribution from any leading climate warming academic like professor Myles Allen (Oxford Martin Climate School) but it does include this table which highlights how Joseph Poore's impact figures differ greatly from those of DEFRA:

 

[delilah]

Soil4Climate | Is Monsanto behind the vegan movement | Facebook

Is Monsanto behind the vegan movement? I'm an expert reviewer for the IPCC report due out in July. It pushes hard for a plant based diet. I was initially on board with this, but I've recently done...

www.facebook.com

This just popped up on a Facebook group I follow, don't know how genuine it is but thought I'd share it anyway....

Can you put a reply up pointing him and others to this thread ?

 

[delilah]

This new rport by a group of UK academics on the impact of livestock on climate warming makes interesting reading in relation to Joseph Poore's work:

https://d1hu4133i4rt3z.cloudfront.net/attachments/941/941978-4275d5bf4c98bbd387d40ece0f2110b5.pdf

It is not the full story and, notably, has no contribution from any leading climate warming academic like professor Myles Allen (Oxford Martin Climate School) but it does include this table which highlights how Joseph Poore's impact figures differ greatly from those of DEFRA:

View attachment 941485

Any chance of someone doing that table again to show the 'global warming potential' of our livestock as a big fat zero ?

 

[roscoe erf]

We always have to remind ourselves that, outside of being a scientific advisor, Joseph is a vegan.
There is no absolute truth in any of this, just our own version of the truth.
Which comes back to the age old question on here : Who is giving UK ag's version of the truth ?

The n.f.u and the other leaches of course

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Any chance of someone doing that table again to show the 'global warming potential' of our livestock as a big fat zero ?

It's DEFRA figures so based on GWP100, as per current IPCC guidance. That actually makes it more interesting as it is at such variance with the EAT-Lancet figures but, on the face of it, uses the same underlying method.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Any chance of someone doing that table again to show the 'global warming potential' of our livestock as a big fat zero ?

On what basis? It would need to have the data calculations behind it to be worth doing. Some uk ruminant production is sequestering net carbon, some will not be due to the energy used in growing, transporting and processing the feedstuffs. We need to be robust in anything we put up against these academics or we risk just making ourselves look silly and irrelevant.

 

[Ted M]

Can you put a reply up pointing him and others to this thread ?

Done, I've just sent him the link to this page and asked him to read it.

 

[delilah]

On what basis? It would need to have the data calculations behind it to be worth doing.

Are we saying that none of our lot have done that ? We have had this sh!tstorm coming our way for years, have we still not got a scientist on board who can show that there is nothing wrong our side of the farm gate ?
Rhetorical questions I know, just wanted to make the point at what a bunch of muppets we are.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Are we saying that none of our lot have done that ? We have had this sh!tstorm coming our way for years, have we still not got a scientist on board who can show that there is nothing wrong our side of the farm gate ?
Rhetorical questions I know, just wanted to make the point at what a bunch of muppets we are.

Few of the ruminant farmers I have spoken to who have claimed their system has no effect on climate warming appeared to have any real grasp of the scientific basis needed to substantiate that claim. I'm not really competent to myself despite having done huge amounts of reading round the subject. I defer to the likes of Dr Richard teague (Texas A&M University), Prof. Myles Allen (Oxford Martin Climate School) and Prof. Dave Frame (Victoria University Climate School) for the detail. Without a full LCA I will make no bold claims for our farm though I will still debate the issues.

The same fault can be said of many of those who castigate us but it's their choice to spout unsubstantiated "facts" against us.

I am really waiting for the 6th IPCC report as the big decider. If it does adopt GWP* for methane then we have a strong argument to fight back with. If it doesn't it'll need some good reasons why not.

 

[delilah]

We could get it done ourselves foc. What a fantastic Phd it would be for a student wanting to make a splash: "A study of all available scientific literature to show that shooting all of the cows in the UK would make no contribution to reducing UK GHG emissions".

 

[C.J]

View attachment 940256

View attachment 940253

Its possible with, a normal Northern hemisphere winter and a colder than average southern hemisphere summer ,that the global temperature anomaly, will show no net warming over the 40 year average,by the end of February.

So there we go - today the atmosphere is the same temperature as the 1979-2000 average .

 

[wanton dwarf]

Few of the ruminant farmers I have spoken to who have claimed their system has no effect on climate warming appeared to have any real grasp of the scientific basis needed to substantiate that claim. I'm not really competent to myself despite having done huge amounts of reading round the subject. I defer to the likes of Dr Richard teague (Texas A&M University), Prof. Myles Allen (Oxford Martin Climate School) and Prof. Dave Frame (Victoria University Climate School) for the detail. Without a full LCA I will make no bold claims for our farm though I will still debate the issues.

The same fault can be said of many of those who castigate us but it's their choice to spout unsubstantiated "facts" against us.

I am really waiting for the 6th IPCC report as the big decider. If it does adopt GWP* for methane then we have a strong argument to fight back with. If it doesn't it'll need some good reasons why not.

So is there ANY evidence yet that CO2 does anything at all in the atmosphere or is it all still hypothesis ?

For example exposing a known volume of gas with varying CO2 levels to a known radiation source. Should be pretty easy to setup.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Few of the ruminant farmers I have spoken to who have claimed their system has no effect on climate warming appeared to have any real grasp of the scientific basis needed to substantiate that claim. I'm not really competent to myself despite having done huge amounts of reading round the subject. I defer to the likes of Dr Richard teague (Texas A&M University), Prof. Myles Allen (Oxford Martin Climate School) and Prof. Dave Frame (Victoria University Climate School) for the detail. Without a full LCA I will make no bold claims for our farm though I will still debate the issues.

The same fault can be said of many of those who castigate us but it's their choice to spout unsubstantiated "facts" against us.

I am really waiting for the 6th IPCC report as the big decider. If it does adopt GWP* for methane then we have a strong argument to fight back with. If it doesn't it'll need some good reasons why not.

There was a post on Faceache earlier from a bloke claiming to be an expert reviewer for the IPCC report due out in July. He says it pushes hard for a plant based diet. I'm not 100% sure whether he means he's actually read the report now from what he's posted but I don't like the sound of it. He's critical of the report. I'd rather they got it right frankly but I'm a loooong way from hopeful.

And is it just me, or is just about every single person blaming livestock for climate change using "info" that starts and ends with Poore & Nemecek as its source?

 

[DaveGrohl]

Soil4Climate | Is Monsanto behind the vegan movement | Facebook

Is Monsanto behind the vegan movement? I'm an expert reviewer for the IPCC report due out in July. It pushes hard for a plant based diet. I was initially on board with this, but I've recently done...

www.facebook.com

This just popped up on a Facebook group I follow, don't know how genuine it is but thought I'd share it anyway....

Sorry Ted, I didn't realise you'd posted the actual link.

 

[Ted M]

Sorry Ted, I didn't realise you'd posted the actual link.

No worries , I only saw it this morning and posted it out of interest more than anything.
Wether it was genuine or not maybe another matter, I'm sure people who are privy to such information probably have a confidentiality clause in their contract

 

[delilah]

No worries , I only saw it this morning and posted it out of interest more than anything.
Wether it was genuine or not maybe another matter, I'm sure people who are privy to such information probably have a confidentiality clause in their contract

I had a look at his fb page, he has the XR logo in his photo box thingy, so I am taking it that when he says he is an 'expert reviewer' then he is a reviewer on behalf of XR.
Before everyone rolls their eyes at that....if, as he says, he has seen through the CCC report as being the work of global corporations who wish to control the food chain, and is going to get XR to oppose it on those grounds, then great.
UK ag and the Envi movement are each others greatest allies.

 

[white_stuffed]

This new report by a group of UK academics on the impact of livestock on climate warming makes interesting reading in relation to Joseph Poore's work:

https://d1hu4133i4rt3z.cloudfront.net/attachments/941/941978-4275d5bf4c98bbd387d40ece0f2110b5.pdf

It is not the full story and, notably, has no contribution from any leading climate warming academic like professor Myles Allen (Oxford Martin Climate School) but it does include this table which highlights how Joseph Poore's impact figures differ greatly from those of DEFRA:

View attachment 941485

A big part of the difference is the note about the system boundaries in the small print at the bottom. The Poore and Nemecek draws incredibly wide system boundaries, see image below. Starting at deforestation and ending at retail shelf, Defra stopped at farm gate according to the notes

 

[Breakthru]

View attachment 941582



So there we go - today the atmosphere is the same temperature as the 1979-2000 average .

World on maximum tilt 3 degrees. North pole warmer south pole colder. 18m more ice in middle of Antartica than 15 years ago. Lenin sculpture 10 m up on top of chimney now only a few feet from being buried. Cyclical???

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

A big part of the difference is the note about the system boundaries in the small print at the bottom. The Poore and Nemecek draws incredibly wide system boundaries, see image below. Starting at deforestation and ending at retail shelf, Defra stopped at farm gate according to the notes
View attachment 941656

Agreed. Both methods are missing Key nuance though.

In DEFRA's case it's the impacts beyond our shores (which is compliant with IPCC adopted process ). In Poore & Nemceck's case it's using globalised data to denigrate uk production methods.

I've also not seen any evidence of Poore & Nemceck attempting to share the impact of South American deforestation between the grazing that initially follows and the soya and palm oil production that is often the eventual use of the land or to adequately allocate the impacts of soya production between the primary human use and the secondary livestock by-product use. (Brazilian law prevents deforested land being used to grow rowcrops, much more valuable than grazing, for 2 years so it's common to graze for 2 years then convert to row crops).

I believe Poore & Nemceck also adopted a much wider LCA boundary for meats than for plant products like cereals, maize, meat alternatives and nuts.

Have I missed something?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

For example exposing a known volume of gas with varying CO2 levels to a known radiation source. Should be pretty easy to setup.

What would that prove? It's nothing like a climate system.

I'll have a look when I've time.