betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
Response to feeding cake isn't a straight line-can vary from 4:1 to 1:1
Feeding 1kg of cake to get an extra 1 litre, ain't going to pay much!
All things Dairy
- Thread starter Cows 'n grass
- Start date
Response to feeding cake isn't a straight line-can vary from 4:1 to 1:1
Feeding 1kg of cake to get an extra 1 litre, ain't going to pay much!
Jdunn55
Member
- Location
- Helston, cornwall
I agree to an extent but, it is noticeable how if you feed an extra 100kg you'll see milk go up by 200litres over a week
My figures were fairly extreme though
Cake is looking like £420 for the winter and milk will be north of £500/t so even at a 1:1 ratio you would probably just about break even by the time you factor in other costs, if its closer to 1:2 you should be making money
Atleast on paper a 13.5me cake should make 2 litres if you allow 5.5mj/litre and leave 2.5mj for maintenance, but like you say it doesn't always work that way
frederick
Member
- Location
- south west
It will be a very rare day they you feed a kg of cake and don't reduce forage intake so you will never get the 13 me extra.
- Location
- South Molton
True but It's a big pile of fresh weight grass compared to the pile of fresh weight conc.
Keep in mind I'm lowly stocked and don't really need the imported feed in the first place. With the historical low PKE price and the convenience, it was worth feeding and would easily be profitable. More PKE went in, less grass was eaten, more silage was made, more money was spent, more milk was made to buy more PKE. This season, I'm convinced it's not worth it.
Of course, if the feed companies dropped their prices, I'd likely go running back to them like a fat boy to a bakery.
Moving on.
PKE prices are currently 35-40% higher than this time last year. Diesel is up 60%. Delivery costs are up. Power prices are up. Lets not mention the upcoming emissions levies, or the fact that the dairy company will pay a small premium for milk that's not made out of PKE (it's a long story). Milk prices are high, costs are high, this seems like the perfect year to experiment a little and work towards a more sustainable system that produces less milk and more profit.
I'm hoping that the result of pulling the PKE will be better utilization of the grass.
-The hungry cows will eat more grass.
-The farm will grow more grass (especially the parts that can't be mowed) because it's been grazed harder.
-More desirable residuals = higher quality regrowth.
-Higher quality regrowth = more efficient operation of the cow, better silage, less/no topping.
-No feed in the shed will likely mean cows will eat, sleep, pee and sh!t over the whole paddock, not stand at the gate 2 hours before milking time. Less fertility transfer = more grass grown.
-Faster milking = reduced power bill
-Faster milking = less sh!t in the shed/yard = less time and money spent spreading effluent
-Less milk = less money wasted on unneccessary mineral supplementation.
-Less milk = cows that last longer.
At a glance it's a no brainer. But will it work out like that in the real world? It worked in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's......so what changed?
Of course, if the feed companies dropped their prices, I'd likely go running back to them like a fat boy to a bakery.
Moving on.
PKE prices are currently 35-40% higher than this time last year. Diesel is up 60%. Delivery costs are up. Power prices are up. Lets not mention the upcoming emissions levies, or the fact that the dairy company will pay a small premium for milk that's not made out of PKE (it's a long story). Milk prices are high, costs are high, this seems like the perfect year to experiment a little and work towards a more sustainable system that produces less milk and more profit.
I'm hoping that the result of pulling the PKE will be better utilization of the grass.
-The hungry cows will eat more grass.
-The farm will grow more grass (especially the parts that can't be mowed) because it's been grazed harder.
-More desirable residuals = higher quality regrowth.
-Higher quality regrowth = more efficient operation of the cow, better silage, less/no topping.
-No feed in the shed will likely mean cows will eat, sleep, pee and sh!t over the whole paddock, not stand at the gate 2 hours before milking time. Less fertility transfer = more grass grown.
-Faster milking = reduced power bill
-Faster milking = less sh!t in the shed/yard = less time and money spent spreading effluent
-Less milk = less money wasted on unneccessary mineral supplementation.
-Less milk = cows that last longer.
At a glance it's a no brainer. But will it work out like that in the real world? It worked in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's......so what changed?
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
“”agree to an extent but, it is noticeable how if you feed an extra 100kg you'll see milk go up by 200litres over a week””
But the milk could be going up anyway , and what I’ve found is rotational grazing some paddocks milk a lot better than others —100 cows is only a couple of litres each and you’ve got your 200 ltrs
You’re very fixated on cake
But the milk could be going up anyway , and what I’ve found is rotational grazing some paddocks milk a lot better than others —100 cows is only a couple of litres each and you’ve got your 200 ltrs
You’re very fixated on cake
My feed rep always used to give me this line:
"At 3kg of feed per cow per day, you're only spending $1.50 on feed per cow per day. At 2 kg/MS production per cow per day, she's making $17 per day, therefore you're still making $15.50 per cow per day".
My answer to him was "What if the cow would produce $16 per day without the feed?"
He would then go on about how I was penny smart and pound foolish. I called him an idiot.
I suspect a lot of people use this flawed logic when making the decision on whether buying in feed is "worth" it.
"At 3kg of feed per cow per day, you're only spending $1.50 on feed per cow per day. At 2 kg/MS production per cow per day, she's making $17 per day, therefore you're still making $15.50 per cow per day".
My answer to him was "What if the cow would produce $16 per day without the feed?"
He would then go on about how I was penny smart and pound foolish. I called him an idiot.
I suspect a lot of people use this flawed logic when making the decision on whether buying in feed is "worth" it.
- Location
- somerset
never been keen on PK, since going to a nutrition meeting, the off putting bit was when the nutritionist used PK as an example, of a 'cheap' ration, saying that its nutritional feed value, as stated, was correct, but the cow, could only utilise that value, when 'broken' down by digestion, the PK's passage through the cow, was quicker than she could break it down. As a senior nutritionist, one must assume he knew what he was talking about, certainly the cake reps there, looked rather uncomfortable.
We have fed 'home mix' on and off for 40yrs, and for most of that time, cake reps have tried to 'talk it down'. Wheat has a value of 12.4 p, me 14,and a dm 87, PK is 12.5 and 17p and dm76.at the moment, wheat is about £5/t cheaper than PK, subject to rapid change. In a cake, there are fluctuating levels of good ingredients, average, and cheap fillers, and a % leeway, on it.
We have home mixed, or caustic treated, when an easy source of grain, is available, otherwise bought in cake, but we have always thought home mix, provided a better result than conc.
As farmers, we may well look at the ingredients in our conc, but no further, with all types of straights fluctuating in price, and millers 'selecting' cheapest ingredients, perhaps its time we all looked at our conc, in greater depth, or perhaps those ingredients, that exit a cow, without giving her the full benefit, of their 'book' feed value, after all, we are paying for it.
Headless chicken
Member
- Location
- West Wales
Anyone know if you can get better blades for hand scrapers? Seem to burn through them like no tomorrow then no one changes the rubbers because it’s a sh!t job and we just wear the metal out until it’s knackered.
More to life
Member
- Location
- Somerset
Kiss
Member
- Location
- North west
Depends How you bought and what your milk price is all individual to each farm I’m hoping to be able if I wished to feed 2kgs of cake in July and only need a litre back
Kiss
Member
- Location
- North west
Never used one but I think wydale do one?
Also a lot of extra costs associated with feeding cake. I think the quoted figure is roughly 1.5 times the cost of the cake on average and that doesn't include effects on cow health/lameness.
On a more general point as an industry most farms are kidding themselves. You can produce up to X amount of MS or whatever you choose to measure from a given area of land. Buying in feed over that to increase yield is just artificially increasing the output of the farm. Not saying there isn't a place to feed cake to some extent but it should be minimised and be basic in its ingredients. Importing feed for cows (particularly Soya/PK whose environmental impact is terrible) is no different to importing milk or feed for people but a lot less efficient. It is madness to import feed from the other side of the world, feed it to cows and market it as British milk.
Same cows. I don't anticipate any changes in reproductive performance.
I pulled the PKE out for 3 weeks during AI in my 2020/2021 season, just to see what would happen, and found there was no difference in submission or conception rates. The production lost during this period was enough to make it worth feeding PK at the time (including the blending/administration fees, cartage, minerals, extra milking time etc). Last season (2021/2022), PKE prices rose about 13% and it was still worth it with the higher milk price. By the end of the season, with transport costs through the roof, it was probably uneconomical to feed but I had to finish what I started (and finish the contract).
You're right, but you've got to remember that it's also a by-product. I'd have thought that profitably producing food from a waste product would be something worth celebrating?
Cheapest I've seen so far has been $414 + GST + freight (I'd say $65-$70)+ $25 blending fee per tonne with a forecast milk price of $8.25-$9.75 per kg/MS (including GST). For the first time ever, PKE is going to cost more than bought in maize silage.
As a comparison:
21/22 was $299 + freight + $20-$23 blending fee + 15% GST per tonne . Freight costs ranged from $45 - $55 + GST per tonne. $9.10-$9.50 milk payout
20/21 was $240 + freight @ $35-$40 per tonne + GST. $7.54 milk payout
19/20 was $220 + GST + freight $7.14 milk payout
17/18 was $199 + GST + freight $6.54 payout