All things Dairy

Manney

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Penzance
Tanker comes 8.30 - 9.00am which is not long after milking for us so milk is about 4 degrees at that point. On the day the tanker doesn't come milk is stored at 3.5 degrees
 

DairyNerd

Member
Livestock Farmer
You're right, but you've got to remember that it's also a by-product. I'd have thought that profitably producing food from a waste product would be something worth celebrating?

Often yes I totally agree waste products should be used but in this case I feel like its use is fueling the fire and obviously lines the pockets of those producing palm oil. Also has to be shipped half way round the world before use.

Maybe I am a bit militant about it but i think to win the argument with an ever growing section of the population focused on plant based foods farming needs to change and to stop using such products. My attitude towards Soya is the same, why feed it to cows to produce milk.

There is an inherent hypocricy in critisising people for buying cheap imported lamb, beef, milk etc... but importing feed for our stock IMO.
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
Often yes I totally agree waste products should be used but in this case I feel like its use is fueling the fire and obviously lines the pockets of those producing palm oil. Also has to be shipped half way round the world before use.

Maybe I am a bit militant about it but i think to win the argument with an ever growing section of the population focused on plant based foods farming needs to change and to stop using such products. My attitude towards Soya is the same, why feed it to cows to produce milk.

There is an inherent hypocricy in critisising people for buying cheap imported lamb, beef, milk etc... but importing feed for our stock IMO.
Your last paragraph is certainly thought provoking, in the same way as foreign machinery. I'm guilty of both.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Often yes I totally agree waste products should be used but in this case I feel like its use is fueling the fire and obviously lines the pockets of those producing palm oil. Also has to be shipped half way round the world before use.

Maybe I am a bit militant about it but i think to win the argument with an ever growing section of the population focused on plant based foods farming needs to change and to stop using such products. My attitude towards Soya is the same, why feed it to cows to produce milk.

There is an inherent hypocricy in critisising people for buying cheap imported lamb, beef, milk etc... but importing feed for our stock IMO.
presumably, collecting waste food for swill, was the best solution, but it was abused, and now goes into land fill, at a cost.
A lot stuff we feed to stock, are by-products, or 'residue' from human food production, which is sold at a 'nice' price. What would happen to them, if we didn't, land fill, free for collection ?
Some of the by-products, we use, are from very unethical practices, and against public opinion, or at least the minority, zealots, with loud voices, others serve a sensible use.
As we move forward, into a new era, where food is rapidly going up in price, only due to supply/demand, so perhaps other processes, will be developed to convert some of those waste products, back into the human food chain.
However we dress it up, importing products, ie soya and palm oil products, 1,000's of miles, and grown from environmentally damaging farming, in the current climate, is wrong, in the publics eye's.
The main problem is a lack of education in 'food', and greedy, profit hungry retailers. Sort that out.............. However, guvs require cheap food, that isn't going to be cheap, in future, how they marry that problem, with climate change targets, not sure it can be, achieved, even by 'importing' cheap food, that still has to face rising input costs.
The 'problem' both needs, and will be, solved, it has to be, how, l don't know, doubt if many do ! The 'traditional' way, was ag subsidies, on food production, guv has decided to remove those food production based subsidies, onto environmental ones, that will lower the food production, of UK ag. They cannot, pay subs on both, interesting times, and hopefully, better times, for farmers, ahead.
 

Wesley

Member
Often yes I totally agree waste products should be used but in this case I feel like its use is fueling the fire and obviously lines the pockets of those producing palm oil. Also has to be shipped half way round the world before use.

Maybe I am a bit militant about it but i think to win the argument with an ever growing section of the population focused on plant based foods farming needs to change and to stop using such products. My attitude towards Soya is the same, why feed it to cows to produce milk.

There is an inherent hypocricy in critisising people for buying cheap imported lamb, beef, milk etc... but importing feed for our stock IMO.
Out of interest, if the UK banned all imports of soya & PKE what effect do you think it would have on the worldwide market for it? Would the producers suddenly cut production because a small country no longer uses it or would another country (such as China) take up the slack? Would our government ban imports from the countries using it or would we be priced out the market by ever cheaper imports? Is it acceptable to import palm oil & soya products for human consumption but not the leftovers to feed to animals?
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Out of interest, if the UK banned all imports of soya & PKE what effect do you think it would have on the worldwide market for it? Would the producers suddenly cut production because a small country no longer uses it or would another country (such as China) take up the slack? Would our government ban imports from the countries using it or would we be priced out the market by ever cheaper imports? Is it acceptable to import palm oil & soya products for human consumption but not the leftovers to feed to animals?
we buy those straights, because we are a rich nation, and our farming systems, are built around them. Stop it, price will go down, and others will buy them. supply/demand.
 

DairyNerd

Member
Livestock Farmer
Your last paragraph is certainly thought provoking, in the same way as foreign machinery. I'm guilty of both.

I think everyone is, my point isn't really that we should never import anything, the fact is we live in a globalised world and there are huge benefits to importing certain goods/services. More that in this particular case importing environmentally damaging feed then passing it off as sustainable British milk is the issue.
 

DairyNerd

Member
Livestock Farmer
Out of interest, if the UK banned all imports of soya & PKE what effect do you think it would have on the worldwide market for it? Would the producers suddenly cut production because a small country no longer uses it or would another country (such as China) take up the slack? Would our government ban imports from the countries using it or would we be priced out the market by ever cheaper imports? Is it acceptable to import palm oil & soya products for human consumption but not the leftovers to feed to animals?

Lots of questions! Firstly I didn't mention anything about a ban. I would however be in favour of making it increasingly difficult to farm in certain ways which are damaging environmentally.

The most price efficient farming systems in this country feed their cows mostly forage, you can look up the stats for about the last 20 years, the more forage in a cows diet the lower COP. Given that not sure how reducing Soya would ' price us out of the market'.

Importing Soya which leads to deforestation is not acceptable, end of. However, you also have to accept feeding people rather than cows is more efficient, there is energy wasted when you feed cows something a person can eat. We should have a farming system which produces milk/meat etc... primarily on what people cannot eat directly.

The "if i don't do it someone else will" argument is not really a good reason to do it. Given the number of terrible things in the world you could basically use that to justify anything. It is also a very good way to never get anything done.
 

Jdunn55

Member
Is it just my milk buyer who insists all soya and palm products have to be sustainably sourced with carbon credits bought by the feed company?

What "sustainably sourced" actually means I don't know, assume something along the lines of only 1 or 2 orangutans killed/acre instead of 6 or 7...
No different to the likes of Shell and BP paying some African countries to plant some trees in a desert and claim they're going carbon neutral mind
 

In the pit

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Pembrokeshire
Is it just my milk buyer who insists all soya and palm products have to be sustainably sourced with carbon credits bought by the feed company?

What "sustainably sourced" actually means I don't know, assume something along the lines of only 1 or 2 orangutans killed/acre instead of 6 or 7...
No different to the likes of Shell and BP paying some African countries to plant some trees in a desert and claim they're going carbon neutral mind
The more you go down the high input route the more reliance you have on all these imports
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
Lots of questions! Firstly I didn't mention anything about a ban. I would however be in favour of making it increasingly difficult to farm in certain ways which are damaging environmentally.

The most price efficient farming systems in this country feed their cows mostly forage, you can look up the stats for about the last 20 years, the more forage in a cows diet the lower COP. Given that not sure how reducing Soya would ' price us out of the market'.

Importing Soya which leads to deforestation is not acceptable, end of. However, you also have to accept feeding people rather than cows is more efficient, there is energy wasted when you feed cows something a person can eat. We should have a farming system which produces milk/meat etc... primarily on what people cannot eat directly.

The "if i don't do it someone else will" argument is not really a good reason to do it. Given the number of terrible things in the world you could basically use that to justify anything. It is also a very good way to never get anything done.
The trouble with that is a forage based system doesn't rate very well in terms of carbon audits rightly or wrongly.
 
Location
Cornwall
Is it just my milk buyer who insists all soya and palm products have to be sustainably sourced with carbon credits bought by the feed company?

What "sustainably sourced" actually means I don't know, assume something along the lines of only 1 or 2 orangutans killed/acre instead of 6 or 7...
No different to the likes of Shell and BP paying some African countries to plant some trees in a desert and claim they're going carbon neutral mind

Saputo request it as well. I could be wrong but I think most companies sustainability sourced soya.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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