All Wales NVZ

[davidroberts30]

Who’s counting?

well i suppose rpw if they come round for a check and your nmp is wrong...

 

[neilo]

We end up spread in less than ideal conditions before or after the closed period
Nowt as blind as those that cant see
You do realise that when our proposed closed period ends we will only be allowed to spread itro 2k gallons per acre through February

As above, maybe some will start to see it as a nutrient source, not just a waste to dispose of? Heavy applications in February aren’t all going to be used by the crop (even in Pembrokeshire), some will leach out.

I suspect they choose such a low level as they know a lot will actually go on at a bit higher rate, but obviously the records will fit...

As @Tarw Coch posted above, if you have 5 months storage, it won’t have to be emptied in February, just enough space made if it’s getting full.

 

[Campani]

The question I would be as asking is, with all the extra regulations that have been imposed on you guys is have they actually worked in the grand scheme of things?! Or is all of it a box ticking exercise that has done nothing but look good on paper? If the latter why are we bothering?!
I'm sure they have worked to an extent but how well is another matter, what's the point if it's only reduced emissions of greenhouse gasses by 0.01%? On the contrary if its reduced them by 50% then sure its worthwhile but I'm not currently convinced

What worries me is that with this ill thought through policy of not being able to spread slurry for 5 months then the moment those 5 months are up everyone will be out spreading, one very heavy rain shower soon after & catastrophic pollution is bound to be caused.
Far better if spreading was spaced out over the 5 months only when weather conditions allow, who are the bloody idiots who come up with these stupid rules?

On grassland, the closed period is 3 months (15 october- 15 January) and 4 months on tillage land (1 October - 31 January). Longer on sandy soils. Storage is 5 months. A very wet February and March is going to cause problems...

 

[BrianV]

Spreading should be controlled by the current weather conditions, position & steepness of the fields, arbitrary rules & regulations thought up by some over educated under experienced fool will in time only make things far worse

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Are you sure that the phosphate is from agriculture? Most of it has traditionally come through drains from housing, industry and sewerage works discharging directly into watercourses. Almost all the hormones comes from women peeing that take birth control pills and hence through sewerage outfalls whether 'treated' or not. It certainly doesn't come from farming.

Phosphate does leach from farm land but generally is worst from sewage works (although some are now fitted with expensive phosphate recovery equipment). Washing powder used to be a big source but most now uses other chemistry. Airports can be big phosphate polluters as well.

Is it common to have problems down stream of sewage works in other countries too?

Yes. Try searching for sewage pollution reports in New Zealand for example (especially Auckland and Lake Taupo). They are worse than we are!

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

So how are these incidents logged on the map?
Are they just reports or actual nrw sittings?

I suspect NRW still record incidents using CICS (the Common Incident Classification System) inherited from when they were the EA Welsh Region.

If so then an incident is listed as "reported" until someone has confirmed it to be real when it becomes "substantiated". It's the latter that are used to create government statistics.

 

[davidroberts30]

I suspect NRW still record incidents using CICS (the Common Incident Classification System) inherited from when they were the EA Welsh Region.

If so then an incident is listed as "reported" until someone has confirmed it to be real when it becomes "substantiated". It's the latter that are used to create government statistics.

be nice to find out if they are reports then or substantiated

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

be nice to find out if they are reports then or substantiated

I'll see if I can find out. It should be public info.

(I was part of the national incident reporting system user group towards the end of my EA days)

 

[davidroberts30]

I'll see if I can find out. It should be public info.

(I was part of the national incident reporting system user group towards the end of my EA days)

the amount of colour on that map around me would suggest to me they might only be reports
i have heard of no incidents in last few years to suggest otherwise

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

the amount of colour on that map around me would suggest to me they might only be reports
i have heard of no incidents in last few years to suggest otherwise

If they are just reports then it's not uncommon to have one occurrence "reported" 25 times....

If substantiated they would all be linked to a single "incident" though.

 

[Tarw Coch]

Simply points out the lunacy of the policy, it is very possible we might have an extremely dry 3.5 months over the winter period then followed by 6 weeks of rain at which point spreading would have to be done, what then?

Don’t tell them Pike

The answer is to increase storage capacity until a point is reached when absolutely nothing needs spreading in less than ideal conditions but that would add yet more costs for probably relatively little gain in most cases in most years provided folk are sensible.

I’m sure a Northern European member, possibly from Denmark mentioned they have to have 9 month storage recently.

There are currently some who have sod all storage in comparison to their numbers of stock, they’re the ones who have caused the problems and will no doubt be looking for some of the largest amounts of grant aid to construct storage.
A lot of us in England have had to abide by these sorts of rules for a number of years now and have had no grant aid available to help.
I’m well aware that not all abide by these rules which is rather frustrating when you’ve invested tens of thousands of pounds of your own money to comply.

 

[davidroberts30]

If they are just reports then it's not uncommon to have one occurrence "reported" 25 times....

If substantiated they would all be linked to a single "incident" though.

this is why it would be nice to know

 

[neilo]

Don’t tell them Pike

The answer is to increase storage capacity until a point is reached when absolutely nothing needs spreading in less than ideal conditions but that would add yet more costs for probably relatively little gain in most cases in most years provided folk are sensible.

I’m sure a Northern European member, possibly from Denmark mentioned they have to have 9 month storage recently.

There are currently some who have sod all storage in comparison to their numbers of stock, they’re the ones who have caused the problems and will no doubt be looking for some of the largest amounts of grant aid to construct storage.
A lot of us in England have had to abide by these sorts of rules for a number of years now and have had no grant aid available to help.
I’m well aware that not all abide by these rules which is rather frustrating when you’ve invested tens of thousands of pounds of your own money to comply.

When NVZs first came in in England, there was a 50% grant towards storage, etc.

 

[Tarw Coch]

When NVZs first came in in England, there was a 50% grant towards storage, etc.

There may well have been but for those of us who have been put into an NVZ more recently there wasn’t a penny.

 

[Cowabunga]

This price chart is from the current AHDB web site. Baring in mind that I'm getting 26ppl for 4.2bf 3.3p top grade milk and subject to market forces which saw me get 12ppl for April and May last year, which was a shock but adjusted upwards by a couple of pence later that Summer.

 

[neilo]

This price chart is from the current AHDB web site. Baring in mind that I'm getting 26ppl for 4.2bf 3.3p top grade milk and subject to market forces which saw me get 12ppl for April and May last year, which was a shock but adjusted upwards by a couple of pence later that Summer.

View attachment 946352

I blame the EU.

 

[Tarw Coch]

I blame the EU.

If that were the case surely we’d have been on similar prices until recently

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

this is why it would be nice to know

I can't find the data online. I'll call them tomorrow to ask for it.....

 

[neilo]

If that were the case surely we’d have been on similar prices until recently

Ah, then maybe it’s down to something happening in the UK, in spite of the EU?
Best get ready for more of the same...

 

[Yale]

well i suppose rpw if they come round for a check and your nmp is wrong...

They don’t weigh your cows and they dont stand at the gate counting loads of slurry and the figures are pointless guesstimates at best for a pointless regulation so NVZ should be treated by farmers with the contempt it deserves.