Animal slaughter

[Woolless]

Yes. Following an effective stun by a captive bolt stunner the animal must be killed by either bleeding or pithing.

I once worked alongside an ex-serviceman who, as a young man, worked in a knackers yard and he said that the captive bolt gun and rodding worked a treat; bang went the gun and before the animal even had time to flinch in went the rod and rattled around the brain cavity, then down went the beast, like a sack of coal.

Spot on, pithing is illegal for cattle intended for human consumption and has been for some time.

I recall attending a conference shortly after the ban and asking the man whose research had led to its banning, why no pithing when we are only killing clinically normal cattle under thirty months of age? No response was the loud reply. I thought it was a disgrace endangering animal welfare and the safety of slaughtermen on that basis.

 

[Longlowdog]

@egbert I have that book on a Glasgow guy living among the Inuit too. Nunaga, Ten Years Of Eskimo Life by Duncan Pryde. Different people in a different time. It made sense to them to walk the caribou to a better place to harvest them.
I've used a .22 rf on the outside lane of the M6 just north of where J36 mart is now and the policeman said nothing about shooting within 50 yards of a highway. I'd dispute the law regarding humane destruction versus sport within distance of a path or highway anyway. It is almost a foregone conclusion that most H.D cases are going to be in proximity to a route used by vehicles. I can't see the procurator fiscal up here facing the papers and saying it was unlawful to end suffering on or adjacent to a highway. Most folk regardless of their attitude towards everyday gun ownership take a pretty dim view of the continuation of suffering by animals.

 

[egbert]

@egbert I have that book on a Glasgow guy living among the Inuit too. Nunaga, Ten Years Of Eskimo Life by Duncan Pryde. Different people in a different time. It made sense to them to walk the caribou to a better place to harvest them.
I've used a .22 rf on the outside lane of the M6 just north of where J36 mart is now and the policeman said nothing about shooting within 50 yards of a highway. I'd dispute the law regarding humane destruction versus sport within distance of a path or highway anyway. It is almost a foregone conclusion that most H.D cases are going to be in proximity to a route used by vehicles. I can't see the procurator fiscal up here facing the papers and saying it was unlawful to end suffering on or adjacent to a highway. Most folk regardless of their attitude towards everyday gun ownership take a pretty dim view of the continuation of suffering by animals.

That's the book...a very interesting insight to a culture that was fast changing. (I'm in contact with one or two up there now, and it's not pretty)

The cop on that roadside apparently just wasn't having it, despite it being obvious what needed doing......and -considering your firearms cert- how can you argue with such a man?

During FMD, I was delegated to ensure the capture of some very flighty Welsh ewes, who'd been sneaking onto a neighbouring farm also deemed contiguous.
3-4 ewes and their lambs were used to bolting out over a hedge, down the road, over the bridge and back onto their common....and a fail on my part would mean that next common being condemned.
I refused to take responsibility, so one of the vets had notional charge. The law closed the road, and we set a stockbox on the bridge.
It is a high bridge bridge - 20' drop to the river, and quite low parapet walls.
A couple of us followed them out and down the road, and rushed them onto the bridge and into the stockbox.
A slaughterman stood on the riverbank - and obviously within feet of the highway- with plod stood beside him, deer rifle shouldered.
The agreed procedure was that If a ewe went over the parapet, she was to be shot in the water.
Rules is rules, sometimes.
(my rifle had already been seized the week before, just in case i took umbrage and shot the SVS staff)

 

[Dry Rot]

I don't think the law prohibits discharging of a firearm near or on a road, unless a road user is inconvenience, though the law might have been changed. I used to take shooting on an estate and the owner presided as 'shoot organiser', probably for tax reasons. He took great delight in having a stand on one drive literally on the verge of a busy commuter route, probably just so he could tell plod to do one! How many would willingly take a peer of the realm to court? Anyway, he was eventually stopped!

But it does raise an interesting point. If plod tried to stop you shooting a road casualty and you went ahead anyway, what's the legal position? You've got the gun so it would be a brave constable who tried to use his physical force to stop you! I have no problem with law breaking if that is the sensible thing to do, but then I would be willing to take the consequences if caught. The law sometimes is an ass but the courts usually have some latitude and I'd rely on good sense for at least a single south facing cell!

 

[unlacedgecko]

That's the book...a very interesting insight to a culture that was fast changing. (I'm in contact with one or two up there now, and it's not pretty)

The cop on that roadside apparently just wasn't having it, despite it being obvious what needed doing......and -considering your firearms cert- how can you argue with such a man?

During FMD, I was delegated to ensure the capture of some very flighty Welsh ewes, who'd been sneaking onto a neighbouring farm also deemed contiguous.
3-4 ewes and their lambs were used to bolting out over a hedge, down the road, over the bridge and back onto their common....and a fail on my part would mean that next common being condemned.
I refused to take responsibility, so one of the vets had notional charge. The law closed the road, and we set a stockbox on the bridge.
It is a high bridge bridge - 20' drop to the river, and quite low parapet walls.
A couple of us followed them out and down the road, and rushed them onto the bridge and into the stockbox.
A slaughterman stood on the riverbank - and obviously within feet of the highway- with plod stood beside him, deer rifle shouldered.
The agreed procedure was that If a ewe went over the parapet, she was to be shot in the water.
Rules is rules, sometimes.
(my rifle had already been seized the week before, just in case i took umbrage and shot the SVS staff)

That was a f**k up all round. Some dreadful stories from farms in Northumberland.

I remember driving across the Moors post cull, and spotting several small mobs of black face ewes and lambs that had escaped the rifles.

 

[Blue.]

Makes you think if he didn't make such a balls of doing it, would anyone have even asked about him having a licence.

However the whole situation sounds abit strange, what was going on for trading standards, a vet and a knacker man who can't aim, all to be there at the same time. Why didn't the vet just put it down?

More to this than reported,probably best if there weren’t any cows to shoot on the farm in the 1st place.

 

[Christoph1945]

Oh my, how things keep changing over the years; my old work colleague not only told me of the acceptable pithing of all the beasts that passed through the slaughterhouse, where he worked as a young man, but he also told me how they often saw TB affected parts of the animals that were just cut away and the rest of the carcass was moved on into our food chain.

The very thought of a botched cull must be an absolute nightmare for you farming folk and I hope that none of you on here will ever have to witness such.

 

[som farmer]

@egbert I have that book on a Glasgow guy living among the Inuit too. Nunaga, Ten Years Of Eskimo Life by Duncan Pryde. Different people in a different time. It made sense to them to walk the caribou to a better place to harvest them.
I've used a .22 rf on the outside lane of the M6 just north of where J36 mart is now and the policeman said nothing about shooting within 50 yards of a highway. I'd dispute the law regarding humane destruction versus sport within distance of a path or highway anyway. It is almost a foregone conclusion that most H.D cases are going to be in proximity to a route used by vehicles. I can't see the procurator fiscal up here facing the papers and saying it was unlawful to end suffering on or adjacent to a highway. Most folk regardless of their attitude towards everyday gun ownership take a pretty dim view of the continuation of suffering by animals.

re-action of police, to these 'cases' is probably down to experience, and common sense, both sadly lacking with many younger police officers.
One of the 'uses' on my .22 rifle, is down as humane euthanasia, and if an animal needs to be shot, we do it straight away, with cows, l always use a 2nd shot, to make 'sure', 12 bore can be a bit OTT.
The worst l have been in, was when a badger had been run over, and had a broken back, quite obvious, all four legs were moving, the badger was still stationary. When l returned from getting my rifle, a lady was there, she had phoned the vets, was hysterical, and wouldn't listen to reason, when l said l was going to put it out of its misery, she was screaming at me, and at the police, on the other end of the phone, that l was murdering someone. Anyway shot the thing in front of her, no way was l getting my hand anywhere near it, she was screaming, crying etc, so l went. Police duly arrived, explained, showed the badger, and was told, well done.
That is the re-action of many, who were brought up, with bambi, watership down etc, and the vet programmes, where they magically bring dogs, cats pets, back from the 'brink' back to normal, and it will get worse.

 

[Christoph1945]

and the vet programmes, where they magically bring dogs, cats pets, back from the 'brink' back to normal, and it will get worse.

All at a great price and generally paid for by pet insurance policies!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Yes. Following an effective stun by a captive bolt stunner the animal must be killed by either bleeding or pithing.

that is why I prefer to use a shotgun rather than cutting the throat, I guess, a shotgun cartridge is more expensive than a round for a captive bolt gun, which is a consideration if you are slaughtering a lot of animals, but for the one needing to be euthanised here every two or three years, of no consequence. I suppose as well, it is easier licencing a captive bolt stunner and it can be left in the cab of the van etc.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I'm minded of ...'a friend', who, after a storm had driven his hill sucklers down into a valley, and over a rocky river for shelter, discovered one of the cows had broken a front leg.
He had no option but to drive her 100-150 meters toward where she could be extracted, before dropping her.
Not, he admits, the nicest thing to have to do.

Reminds me of a Scot who lived with-and wrote about- the Inuit in the 1940s-50s
He went hunting caribou with them once.
Having walked half a mile or so inland, they set about shooting with the rifles they used.
He was appalled. Rather than clean shots, all they seemed to be able to do was blow a leg off each time.
He cleanly dropped a couple in what he thought the proper manner....to the shaking heads of admonition.
They had to explain....'how was he going to get his caribou back to the shore?' (from where they could be recovered)
They simply drove their injured beasts down to the shore, then despatched them.

I recall reading that in Switzerland, they banned blowing up dead cows in the hills with explosives to get rid of them!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I don't think the law prohibits discharging of a firearm near or on a road, unless a road user is inconvenience, though the law might have been changed. I used to take shooting on an estate and the owner presided as 'shoot organiser', probably for tax reasons. He took great delight in having a stand on one drive literally on the verge of a busy commuter route, probably just so he could tell plod to do one! How many would willingly take a peer of the realm to court? Anyway, he was eventually stopped!

But it does raise an interesting point. If plod tried to stop you shooting a road casualty and you went ahead anyway, what's the legal position? You've got the gun so it would be a brave constable who tried to use his physical force to stop you! I have no problem with law breaking if that is the sensible thing to do, but then I would be willing to take the consequences if caught. The law sometimes is an ass but the courts usually have some latitude and I'd rely on good sense for at least a single south facing cell!

I am sure, I have read about someone pulling through a red traffic light to let an ambulance through, and still getting the fine for running a red light, there being no mitigating circumstances that are acceptable.

 

[JP1]

I am sure, I have read about someone pulling through a red traffic light to let an ambulance through, and still getting the fine for running a red light, there being no mitigating circumstances that are acceptable.

I'd go to court on that one

 

[egbert]

I recall reading that in Switzerland, they banned blowing up dead cows in the hills with explosives to get rid of them!

military training, since they're all in the army...surely?

 

[robbie]

I think I've told this story on here before but a few years ago a roe deer was hit on the road near us, it had broken limbs and or a broken back but was alive and in the bank at the side of the road. The traffic had stopped, a group had gathered round it which was causing it even more stress. The police were in attendance also.
My mate who is a keeper on the estate where the accident was happened to he caught up in the traffic with his gator, with him he had his riffle.
He approached the police and explained he could dispatch the animal, the police thought this a good idea and said they would move people back.

When the do gooders realises what was happening they formed a human chain around the animal and and wouldn't move, they informed the police that an animal sanctuary had been called to "save" the animal.

My mate left the scene via a field just as the sanctuary arrived. They wrapped the animal in blankets and sat with it for several hours before it finally died.
I can only imagine the stress and pain that animal must have endured before finally dieing all in the hands of so called animal lovers!!!!!!

 

[Christoph1945]

I was initially puzzled when I learned in here that pithed beasts were not allowed to go into the food chain but I have very recently learned that they are afraid that BSE contaminated brain material may gain access to materials for human consumptions. Still a little bit puzzled though!

 

[farmerm]

re-action of police, to these 'cases' is probably down to experience, and common sense, both sadly lacking with many younger police officers.
One of the 'uses' on my .22 rifle, is down as humane euthanasia, and if an animal needs to be shot, we do it straight away, with cows, l always use a 2nd shot, to make 'sure', 12 bore can be a bit OTT.
The worst l have been in, was when a badger had been run over, and had a broken back, quite obvious, all four legs were moving, the badger was still stationary. When l returned from getting my rifle, a lady was there, she had phoned the vets, was hysterical, and wouldn't listen to reason, when l said l was going to put it out of its misery, she was screaming at me, and at the police, on the other end of the phone, that l was murdering someone. Anyway shot the thing in front of her, no way was l getting my hand anywhere near it, she was screaming, crying etc, so l went. Police duly arrived, explained, showed the badger, and was told, well done.
That is the re-action of many, who were brought up, with bambi, watership down etc, and the vet programmes, where they magically bring dogs, cats pets, back from the 'brink' back to normal, and it will get worse.

Given their legal protections it pleasantly surprised me that a mercy killing of a injured badger is actual legal.

LANCASHIRE POLICE - Lancashire Constabulary

description

www.lancashire.police.uk

• killing or attempting to kill a badger which appears to be so seriously injured or in such a condition that to kill it would be an act of mercy (this does not include where the person caused or allowed the injuries to occur in the first place);

 

[som farmer]

l didn't have a problem, the police were happy, they didn't think l was killing someone. The vets had politely declined to attend, the only problem was the hysterical lady, never seen anything like her, except on TV/film.

 

[unlacedgecko]

l didn't have a problem, the police were happy, they didn't think l was killing someone. The vets had politely declined to attend, the only problem was the hysterical lady, never seen anything like her, except on TV/film.

Heard a similar story. Someone ran over a badger and KO'd. Animal defender behind insisted on picking up the creature and put it in her boot to drive to the vets.

Half way there Brock woke up and ate his way out the boot into the back seat.

 

[Hampton]

Out of interest, what is the particular issue with shooting in the back of the head?

I was told by a slaughterman years ago, that if euthanasing a ewe shoot it at the back of the head. That's with a .22 or similiar calibre. Cattle should be shot from the front, large calibre rifle, or as one knackerman used to do, a 12b at close range

You shoot ewes at the back of the head.
You shoot cattle between the eyes.