Announcement Tomorrow on Banning Live Exports and More Restrictions On Domestic Journeys

[JP1]

Take the temperature down folks this thread is about live exports and livestock transit times in the here and now

 

[irish dom]

That must be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on here.
The lowest land I farm is 1000ft up to over 2500ft we have some of the highest rainfall and poorest land and a lot of it to cover. Considering the land is wet in a good year and cutting ground is in the minority how do you think we faired that year? How do you think we felt having to bid against your subbed forage and subbed haulage for what we needed? How do you think we felt that you were keeping stock on a head age basis getting paid for stuff you couldn’t carry? Then after all that sending your beef here at the end of it all?
Everyone has a brain using it is a different matter. Try putting it into gear before you write such shyte

There was no headage in 2013 its been gone for quite sometime. The rubbish that was sent here wasnt worth bedding with but it war either that or starve. You have a huge amount of arable land over there and cheap by products that we can only dream of. It was a once off disaster but you still arent getting that. I take it your brains gearbox seized years ago if thats how you view a crisis

 

[irish dom]

Ok keep your bloody ewes then

How old are you 206?

Enjoy Brexit you deserve it

 

[livestock 1]

There was no headage in 2013 its been gone for quite sometime. The rubbish that was sent here wasnt worth bedding with but it war either that or starve. You have a huge amount of arable land over there and cheap by products that we can only dream of. It was a once off disaster but you still arent getting that. I take it your brains gearbox seized years ago if thats how you view a crisis

I think everyone has had enough of you now

 

[livestock 1]

Enjoy Brexit you deserve it

I am

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

DEFRA have apparently changed their mind on this now and even though it says the proposed new regulations are for "ALL" journeys, they are now saying only over 65kms.
You would have thought that as we are leaving the EU that would be 40.63 miles!
The comment was that it appears they are making this up as they go along!!

Northern Ireland is ok though because it won't be an export but the animals will have to comply with EU regulations!
However at present no Health certificates will be issued for journeys after 1/1/21, the drivers over 8 hour permits will also no longer be recognised.

 

[kfpben]

DEFRA have apparently changed their mind on this now and even though it says the proposed new regulations are for "ALL" journeys, they are now saying only over 65kms.
You would have thought that as we are leaving the EU that would be 40.63 miles!
The comment was that it appears they are making this up as they go along!!

Northern Ireland is ok though because it won't be an export but the animals will have to comply with EU regulations!
However at present no Health certificates will be issued for journeys after 1/1/21, the drivers over 8 hour permits will also no longer be recognised.

Phew, at least my trip to market in -4 yesterday morning wasn’t a potential lawbreaker then

 

[delilah]

Phew, at least my trip to market in -4 yesterday morning wasn’t a potential lawbreaker then

you best start bringing a flask and a good book, the m20 is already turning into a lorry park......

 

[johnspeehs]

How about this one for a bit of strange thinking from the the powers that be. Local abattoir has paddocks that we use at nights for dropping off sheep if we have more than one load going in. They are 100 yrds from the lairage and we run them across early in the morning but as of this week the vet wont allow it on welfare grounds, they now have to be loaded on to a trailer and brought across that way, WTF, what would you think was the most stressful?.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I have just completed the consultation on live animal exports, long winded, but worth doing

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

How about this one for a bit of strange thinking from the the powers that be. Local abattoir has paddocks that we use at nights for dropping off sheep if we have more than one load going in. They are 100 yrds from the lairage and we run them across early in the morning but as of this week the vet wont allow it on welfare grounds, they now have to be loaded on to a trailer and brought across that way, WTF, what would you think was the most stressful?.

What bit of welfare regulations is the vet claiming makes this having to be done.
There is loads of scientific evidence that shows the most stress for animals being moved is the loading and unloading!!

Please ask the Vet why they need to increase the stress levels which will have the effect of reducing the quality of the meat.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

I have just completed the consultation on live animal exports, long winded, but worth doing

Well done, make sure lots of others do it. Are you going to put a heater in your Ifor Williams trailer?

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Well done, make sure lots of others do it. Are you going to put a heater in your Ifor Williams trailer?

no, I said I would have to "walk" the animals to Mart on the A road instead! Good enough for my Grandfather, and think of the fossil fuels I would save too and good for my waist line, sounds like a Win Win.

 

[serf]

We could recondition and upgrade all the drover pens enroute to market. then you never know Adam might join you and do a fluffy countryfile article on how livestock get to market under the govs new welfare friendly rules

 

[JP1]

URGENT

Please could someone measure the exact withers height of a 42kg/45kg live lamb ideally one Suffolk cross maternal and one Charollais / Beltex live lamb

Please could someone measure the withers height of a mature ewe as above

If you can keep them quiet enough in a race to give me the natural standing head height of lamb and ewe that would be really really useful

I can't stress how important an accurate measurement is as the data on the web is not

If anybody could do this for me by tonight it would greatly assist various stakeholders respoinding to the consultation

Ditto if you're loading or in a market today, please can you send me back sheep deck heights on brands of farm livestock trailers. The manufacturer data sheets don't seem to have this dimension. I am anticipating smaller eg 8ft long trailers may have an internal height of about 1,7m overall, the Nugent bigger ones state 1930 internal. If the decks are exactly midway, this would give a deck height for sheep +/- 950mm

Thanks very much in advance

 

[Ffermer Bach]

URGENT

Please could someone measure the exact withers height of a 42kg/45kg live lamb ideally one Suffolk cross maternal and one Charollais / Beltex live lamb

Please could someone measure the withers height of a mature ewe as above

If you can keep them quiet enough in a race to give me the natural standing head height of lamb and ewe that would be really really useful

I can't stress how important an accurate measurement is as the data on the web is not

If anybody could do this for me by tonight it would greatly assist various stakeholders respoinding to the consultation

Ditto if you're loading or in a market today, please can you send me back sheep deck heights on brands of farm livestock trailers. The manufacturer data sheets don't seem to have this dimension. I am anticipating smaller eg 8ft long trailers may have an internal height of about 1,7m overall, the Nugent bigger ones state 1930 internal. If the decks are exactly midway, this would give a deck height for sheep +/- 950mm

Thanks very much in advance

I just took a load of lambs to the abattoir, and did look and see how much "gap" there was, which was less than the new guidance, can everyone please fill in the consultation document (and lobby their MP too).

 

[JP1]

I just took a load of lambs to the abattoir, and did look and see how much "gap" there was, which was less than the new guidance, can everyone please fill in the consultation document (and lobby their MP too).

I still need some hard data on actual sheep heights ; withers and naturally carried head height

This is vital and before Monday please

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

I still need some hard data on actual sheep heights ; withers and naturally carried head height

This is vital and before Monday please

I spent an hour this afternoon measuring sheep which having seen them for the last 60 plus years I discovered something new about them, so you are never too old to learn. The height of sheep of similar breeds varies very little.

Romney lambs 42 - 48 kg, average 45kg (shorn in June) were 68 cm at the shoulder and 76 cm to the top of the head
Charrolais X Romney average 42 kg 66 cm and 74 cm
50 kg Texels 70 cm and 77 cm

Romney ewes 65 to 80 kg average 72kg were 70 cm and 76 - 78 cm

An interesting observation was that after half an hour of standing still they sunk around 2 cm, which I realised is as they relaxed their legs actually seem to lower into a relaxed position. So in fact the ewes were lower than the lambs to the top of the head.

If one adds on the extra 22cm that Defra is suggesting in the consultation then each deck will need to have 90 cm minimum or close to 3' which would make a 4 decker have to be over 16' high.

Hope that helps with your research Jeremy.
Having data for more breeds will be useful.

 

[egbert]

I still need some hard data on actual sheep heights ; withers and naturally carried head height

This is vital and before Monday please

There's a fairly pointy article on the topic likely showing up in Agricultural Matters here any minute

Something that didn't seem to make the edit is equine head room
It is law that any wagon carrying equines already has to have - is it?- 7'6" headroom.
Any equines include weaned dartmoor foals, standing 'waist height' at the wither.
They couldn't hit the roof off a 7'6" box if they reared up and stood on tippy toe!
(The rule is brought to you by the same wunch of bankers that're 'consulting' with us now).

 

[JP1]

I spent an hour this afternoon measuring sheep which having seen them for the last 60 plus years I discovered something new about them, so you are never too old to learn. The height of sheep of similar breeds varies very little.

Romney lambs 42 - 48 kg, average 45kg (shorn in June) were 68 cm at the shoulder and 76 cm to the top of the head
Charrolais X Romney average 42 kg 66 cm and 74 cm
50 kg Texels 70 cm and 77 cm

Romney ewes 65 to 80 kg average 72kg were 70 cm and 76 - 78 cm

An interesting observation was that after half an hour of standing still they sunk around 2 cm, which I realised is as they relaxed their legs actually seem to lower into a relaxed position. So in fact the ewes were lower than the lambs to the top of the head.

If one adds on the extra 22cm that Defra is suggesting in the consultation then each deck will need to have 90 cm minimum or close to 3' which would make a 4 decker have to be over 16' high.

Hope that helps with your research Jeremy.
Having data for more breeds will be useful.

Many many thanks Frank. Very helpful

I'm pleased that after a slow start many farming and transport "stakeholders" are actually seeing this Consultation document for the Trojan Horse (taken over by various "welfare concerns" and with an ostensibly gullible DEFRA gold plating their thoughts

For the avoidance of doubt DEFRA may have trumpeted this in the media as a ban on live exports for slaughter but the implications of the report have much deeper and severe implications for all involved in the UK livestock sector

In 2014 I did a paid 14 week consultancy project looking at future proofing the design of livestock transporters to take account of any projected legislation. I personally met and spoke with the Government State officials for the top 10 EU red meat states and NONE of them saw any need to go beyond EC 1/2005 regulations and that the enforcement of these regs and / or more study on animal physiology was the way forward

I would urge everyone to read the consultation and respond directly and as suggested

I am happy to say I've had quite some success in alerting and involving many industry bodies and larger individual operations

Anyone handling cattle this weekend who can help with withers and naturally carried head heights stats on their cattle or more sheep data would be really useful and ideally relayed to me by PM or on here before noon Monday

Thanks again