Another BBC article Biased against farming.

[ajd132]

Is it the case that you like to give the impression that you are far more clever that the rest of us but in reality you are not?

No I just have a different opinion to you. I think subsidies going would benefit farmers in the long run. At the moment I think they benefit everyone in the industry but the farmers.

 

[livestock 1]

No I just have a different opinion to you. I think subsidies going would benefit farmers in the long run. At the moment I think they benefit everyone in the industry but the farmers.

Such a shame you were doing so well too.
Im just joking no offence intended.
I actually totally agree with what you’ve just written.
We may well benefit it’s just getting off the current merry go round without too many shockwaves

 

[ajd132]

Such a shame you were doing so well too.
Im just joking no offence intended.
I actually totally agree with what you’ve just written.
We may well benefit it’s just getting off the current merry go round without too many shockwaves

I agree. Turbulent times ahead but we will be better off in the long run. All we can do is prepare as best we can and try to smooth the bumps. The industry as it is isn’t exactly in a good place.

 

[lloyd]

Crums I've just got back to this after several hours of slog,
and the same ones are still at it tooth and nail .
Obviously they have too much time on their hands and
definitely dont need the subsidy.

 

[livestock 1]

Crums I've just got back to this after several hours of slog,
and the same ones are still at it tooth and nail .
Obviously they have too much time on their hands and
definitely dont need the subsidy.

I was out at 4 this morning. You were probably just turning over for your second sleep around then !

 

[Clive]

I don’t get the bit about folks paying big rents because of subs and the need for it to go back to the landowner .
Big rents are caused purely by the ones that tender it in the first place , needing to farm 1000s acres to make a living .
no one holds a gun to anyone’s head over rents.
locally, one of the operators that has paid big rents £190 acre FBT , has said he won’t make a penny this year, whereas we on a much more modest acreage , will have done ok, even in this poor year.
but still we are seen as the poor relation , even the poor operators, by the likes of @ajd132 and @Clive .
All I will say is that big isn’t alway best and pride comes before a fall .

land with no entitlements here is worth £100/ac

land with entitlements is worth £180


spot and explain the difference?

the sub goes to the landlord - the farmer just collects it for them

 

[lloyd]

I was out at 4 this morning. You were probably just turning over for your second sleep around then !

Letting the dog out were you

 

[livestock 1]

Letting the dog out were you

Up for a pee I suppose. Did I wake you up?

 

[lloyd]

land with no entitlements here is worth £100/ac

land with entitlements is worth £180


spot and explain the difference?

the sub goes to the landlord - the farmer just collects it for them

Lots of countries subsidise their farmers including the USA ,
get over it .
Lots of things are unfair in life if you want to help society
then campaign to get rid of roll over tax relief on farmland
next to urban settlements ,house prices would be much more
affordable for the next generation.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

does anyone pay owners of small shops a sub to stop them being “gobbled up” by supermarkets or Amazon ?

business ( something some farmers seem to forget they actually run) is tough, it takes no prisoners and allows for no inefficiency, eat or be eaten ....... nothing new

what makes us feel we are so much more special as an industry?

But surely this is how the crux of the whole 'public good for public money' kicks in......

Everybody loves the image of the small family farm.They like the idea of generations taking responsibility for their produce and surrounding environment. It's the image always used when stuff is being sold, down to the use of farm names on supermarket labels.
The trouble is; subsidies, regulations, buyers and even the NFU discriminate against the smaller operators and continually advance the big is beautiful line.

As such I believe that small farmers, shops and other businesses should certainly be given some protection from the onslaught of capital/globalism as they offer public good in a way that the tax dodging, faceless, big businesses don't.

 

[lloyd]

Up for a pee I suppose. Did I wake you up?

I dont sleep well ,worried about someone nicking
my subsidies.

 

[livestock 1]

I dont sleep well worried about someone knicking
my subsidies.

Don’t worry I’ve got it sorted out. Even the cleverest ones can’t farm without them they just say they can. You can sleep well tonight

 

[Clive]

Lots of countries subsidise their farmers including the USA ,
get over it .
Lots of things are unfair in life if you want to help society
then campaign to get rid of roll over tax relief on farmland
next to urban settlements ,house prices would be much more
affordable for the next generation.

thats exactly my point - its not FARMERS that are subsidised in the uk its the LANDLORDS

by all means support farmers but supporting land owvers is VERY messed up and farmers suffer as a result vs farners overseas thst as you say often are directly subsidised and whom we have to compete against

 

[livestock 1]

But surely this is how the crux of the whole 'public good for public money' kicks in......

Everybody loves the image of the small family farm.They like the idea of generations taking responsibility for their produce and surrounding environment. It's the image always used when stuff is being sold, down to the use of farm names on supermarket labels.
The trouble is; subsidies, regulations, buyers and even the NFU discriminate against the smaller operators and continually advance the big is beautiful line.

As such I believe that small farmers, shops and other businesses should certainly be given some protection from the onslaught of capital/globalism as they offer public good in a way that the tax dodging, faceless, big businesses don't.

I agree with a lot of this. When you watch the tv programmes slagging off factory type farming but the system promotes these type of businesses and they are not very susceptible to the demise of bps li

 

[ajd132]

Don’t worry I’ve got it sorted out. Even the cleverest ones can’t farm without them they just say they can. You can sleep well tonight

Have you not understood a word I have said?

 

[Henarar]

thats exactly my point - its not FARMERS that are subsidised in the uk its the LANDLORDS

by all means support farmers but supporting land owvers is VERY messed up and farmers suffer as a result vs farners overseas thst as you say often are directly subsidised and whom we have to compete against

No we have already established that some rents are less than the payment so you are wrong, and even if the rents are more than the payment that is the fault of those willing to pay that amount not the bps payments

 

[ajd132]

No we have already established that some rents are less than the payment so you are wrong, and even if the rents are more than the payment that is the fault of those willing to pay that amount not the bps payments

That’s only ah A’s because they are long term.
There is no way that normal and more coming FBT’s are not influenced by the bps area payment of £220ish/ha.

 

[ollie989898]

That’s true. But I get the impression that the main protagonists on this thread, see themselves as the only ones capable of farming without subs , and can’t wait to pounce on more acres.

I don't see that from what they have written. I've met more than a few people who manage to farm profitably without subsides or without actually using them within their farming business. Interestingly, I would not class any of these individuals as large all-arable farmers. If you ask me, it will be large all arable units that will be most exposed when BPS is removed because of the amount of risk and expenditure involved to grow an average crop.

 

[ollie989898]

It'll have to be unless those buyers want wholesale business collapse due to lack of supply....

What do you mean lack of supply? Can you be more specific, lack of supply of what exactly?

 

[digger64]

I don’t get the bit about folks paying big rents because of subs and the need for it to go back to the landowner .
Big rents are caused purely by the ones that tender it in the first place , needing to farm 1000s acres to make a living .
no one holds a gun to anyone’s head over rents.
locally, one of the operators that has paid big rents £190 acre FBT , has said he won’t make a penny this year, whereas we on a much more modest acreage , will have done ok, even in this poor year.
but still we are seen as the poor relation , even the poor operators, by the likes of @ajd132 and @Clive .
All I will say is that big isn’t alway best and pride comes before a fall .

You really dont understand it do you , everything you say is correct, but you don't seem to see how these situations and this trading environment/ treadmill is created by the payment system , I think it's human nature in response to the reduction of exposure to potential risk , in other words the more decoupled sub you get the narrower potential unit of margin you are prepared to accept , with today's machinery,high collateral values and low interest rates the amount of physical work one can do is not the limiting factor it was to previous generations . This treadmill benefits everyone in the system apart from the producer and the tax payer and has lead to the low value the industry has in the eyes of the public .