Another BBC article Biased against farming.

[lloyd]

Is there going to be enough money for everyone to claim £500/ha + enviro schemes?

Yes they will just print more .

 

[ollie989898]

I would look at it differently as in some large land owners were happy
to rent land out cheaply as long as they had the subsidy ,where as they
will be looking to increase rents and add value once the subsidies are removed.
Dont be surprised if alot of CFA s are terminated as there will be better paying alternatives.

Can you explain, what do you mean by 'better paying alternatives'?

Around here, I do not see land being rented out cheaply, to my eyes, rents would appear pretty stiff and BPS doesn't even come into it?

 

[ajd132]

Yes they will just print more .

Why does everyone think there is going to be a never ending supply of money for enviro schemes? They way you are talking it up they will need about ten times the amount we currently get in bps.
Imo it’s going to very competitive and hard work to get this high paying schemes.

 

[lloyd]

Can you explain, what do you mean by 'better paying alternatives'?

Around here, I do not see land being rented out cheaply, to my eyes, rents would appear pretty stiff and BPS doesn't even come into it?

Depends which area of the country you are in Ollie.
Your area and around here you are correct but certain areas
which are mostly grain growing regions there has been less competition on rents.
Those areas I can see landowners going big towards enviroment payments and
sacking their CFA farmers.

 

[ollie989898]

Why does everyone think there is going to be a never ending supply of money for enviro schemes? They way you are talking it up they will need about ten times the amount we currently get in bps.
Imo it’s going to very competitive and hard work to get this high paying schemes.

I can't help but agree. I would reckon on certain areas of the country with the kinds of landscapes they want to enhance being given priority. Certain kinds of land or certain areas. And if £500/ha is the sort of money being talked about I can't see that topping it once a year will be all that is needed to qualify either.

It may well become a serious reset of the UK's agricultural system, certainly if the arable world is affected, then it will have effects in the livestock world as they are consumers of the grain it producers.

 

[ajd132]

Depends which area of the country you are in Ollie.
Your area and around here you are correct but certain areas
which are mostly grain growing regions there has been less competition on rents.
Those areas I can see landowners going big towards enviroment payments and
sacking their CFA farmers.

Unproductive and unprofitable hill farms should be the first to go into enviro schemes.

 

[lloyd]

Why does everyone think there is going to be a never ending supply of money for enviro schemes? They way you are talking it up they will need about ten times the amount we currently get in bps.
Imo it’s going to very competitive and hard work to get this high paying schemes.

I didn't say it would be everywhere !

 

[ollie989898]

Depends which area of the country you are in Ollie.
Your area and around here you are correct but certain areas
which are mostly grain growing regions there has been less competition on rents.
Those areas I can see landowners going big towards enviroment payments and
sacking their CFA farmers.

Your part of the world has some seriously nice dirt though, doesn't it? Here it is driven by dairy farmers. In your situation, if good crops, particularly roots can be grown, then the rents have more potential ceiling because people can earn more from them.

For a wet hillside somewhere that is perpetually in mist or drizzle and on shallow soils then I can't see many people willing to pay big money for it, though there are innovators out there I'm sure. I think we will see a portion of land becoming effectively unfarmed though you can argue the impact of that both ways.

 

[lloyd]

Unproductive and unprofitable hill farms should be the first to go into enviro schemes.

Not many of those in Mid Wales.
I can think of quite a few in very good financial situation.
I think more grain will be imported and those areas that are
really only suited to growing grain will enter the enviromental schemes.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

As it has been, so all this "payments go to the land owners" is bull sh1t

Don't agree. It's basically a dividend on the land. Either paid direct or the claimant passes it over in rent.

 

[farmerm]

Very simple calculation you can all do.... simply £93/ac payment divided by your average yield per ac... based on our productivity to replace BPS at its current rate I would need £26/t on wheat, £37//t on barley, £62/t on Sp Beans and perhaps most worryingly of all £46/head a lamb... This is all before ignoring the 14% of the farm which is eligable for BPS but which we do not actively crop or graze and any period of fallow...

 

[britt]

Subsidies have absolutely nothing to do with production or the price of food. They are a land owning subsidy, and need to go as soon as possible.

The system of getting paid per acre, whether you farmed it or not was brought in by the Blair Government.
My take on it is . "We don't like farmers getting all of this money"
"The farmers are complaining that they don't make any profit from farming"
" Lets give them the money whether they produce food or not and they won't bother to farm, just claim the money"
"We point out to Joe public what the farmers are doing, shock horror ! Take away the money they all say !"
What they didn't account for was that farmers like farming and see food production as their place in, and contribution to, society.
That is purely my opinion and is probably wrong. This is a "tongue in cheek" piece of fiction.
But given Blairs track record with comprehending reality ?

 

[SteveHants]

"The environment" is what humans have made of it. All this bullcrap about bulldozing hedges for instance [there has been more planted than destroyed in the last two decades] ignores the fact that hedges and enclosures are modern man made structures specifically built to increase agricultural efficiency. All the bullcrap about destruction of forests when forest area has been and is expanding rapidly virtually everywhere except Brazil.
All the bullcrap about farm subsidies from those that have derived a living from farming either directly or indirectly and may well be living on state handouts of one kind or another while producing nothing.

Its just another symptom of the British Disease of socialism and wokeism and self loathing that is very near to getting a real arse-kicking from the economy collapsing and the state being no longer able to bankroll anyone or anything much. A kicking in their personal wallets and ending of public services they truly deserve as a lesson in reality. A leveller that the wokey socialist must surely applaud. Everyone pulled down to the same level of poverty and misery as for the failed businessman whose very home is repossessed and bank cards confiscated.

So....
State supported industries are NOT socialist and unfettered free market capitalism IS socialist?
That's quite the doublethink.....

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Yadda yadda- you have no clue as to the level of experience I have in anything my friend.

Yara/Origin, yes they are big multinational companies or close to it. They have big turnovers and market shares etc etc etc. How you can deduce profit margins from that information alone I have no idea.

Er, by looking at the accounts....

 

[ajd132]

Not many of those in Mid Wales.
I can think of quite a few in very good financial situation.
I think more grain will be imported and those areas that are
really only suited to growing grain will enter the enviromental schemes.

I would agree there is a lot of poor land producing grain with High inputs and low to average yields.

 

[SteveHants]

You constantly attack the bulk of hardworking farmers on this forum, mostly small family businesses. The relevant word being 'family'. You attack their farming methods and you attack their income streams, their very existence. That is just as personal, more so in fact, as us asking you where YOU derive your income, to which question there has been a great big silence. I wonder why?

Why is that important? Captialism eats small businesses as the drive towards globalism continues. It is a system of exchange and as such is entirely without morals (as are the most successful capitalists) - it is up to peoples to enforce morals upon it (the basis of socialism).

 

[ollie989898]

Er, by looking at the accounts....

You can tell margins per unit product from a set of accounts?

Impressive!

 

[Tubbylew]

If land has zero agricultural value and cannot economically produce food, then surely it should be left well alone to grow whatever nature intended?

This farming thing, it's not great for the environment.

Shepherds huts and bell tents seem a popular crop at the moment.

 

[ollie989898]

Shepherds huts and bell tents seem a popular crop at the moment.

That is fair enough. If people can earn money from the land without having to lift their own elbow I am all in favour of that.

 

[Tubbylew]

Is there going to be enough money for everyone to claim £500/ha + enviro schemes?

I belive the figure mooted at the most recent efra select commitee was more £50/ha total £50, fifty, it may alter though, I don't think they know themselves.