Another walker trampled

[milkloss]

He wanted to get away but would not leave me , he didnt bark or yap and had no interest in the calf , he`s had years of walking through cattle and sheep.

Was a tongue in cheek comment earlier but seriously consider taking a toy/dummy for the dog to run off and retrieve so you can retreat to safety.

 

[livestock 1]

There is no such thing as an accident nowadays

 

[bobk]

I dont have cattle but in my area there is common land so walkers can go where ever they want on foot or on horse back / mountain bike , I did once have an incident myself when walking the dog , I came out of a gully and turned a corner to see a cow snorting at my Jack Russell , she then came at me so I backed off , as I moved backward she moved towards me , I managed to scoop the dog up and it was clear thats what she was after , I could sense it could all go very wrong so kept very still but she wouldn't leave , I carefully picked up a duck stone and bounced it off her head then got out of there quickly , I`ve had over 20 years working with cattle and that was the closest I`ve come to being mashed.

If you're a farmer I'm mother Teresa

 

[Lincoln75]

Was a tongue in cheek comment earlier but seriously consider taking a toy/dummy for the dog to run off and retrieve so you can retreat to safety.

I dont believe it would have worked , every time I moved the cow stepped a little closer , she had no fear of me at all ,had I thrown a ball I believe she would have gone for me , as I said I slowlly picked up a very large stone and bounced it off her head , lucky one was there to pick up or it could have been messy .

 

[Lincoln75]

If you're a farmer I'm mother Teresa

Never claimed to be , however I was for over 20 years.

 

[milkloss]

I dont believe it would have worked , every time I moved the cow stepped a little closer , she had no fear of me at all ,had I thrown a ball I believe she would have gone for me , as I said I slowlly picked up a very large stone and bounced it off her head , lucky one was there to pick up or it could have been messy .

Bounce was a good move then. Any harder might have p1ssed her off even more!

 

[suffolksmallholder]

Not been here for a while but felt that I should post on this matter.
Livestock farming is a risky business. In England the public have a right to walk on public footpaths in safety. Simples. If you have cattle in that paddock be it on you. Yes the public do strange things but you have a legal duty to mitigate this.
I was party to a trampling & have mentioned it, quite possibly on the 'old' forum. I forget as it was a long time ago.
If your cattle trample someone & kill them I would hazzard that your next insurance premium would be so high that you'd not run cattle again on your farm again, ever. Simple. Move the cattle to somewhere there's no footpaths that's not difficult. If you don't you are running a real knife edge. If you can't then buy a new farm or do something else with the land.
The Farm that I'm talking about, where a MOP was trampled, went out of business within three years. The elderly farmer 'retired early' & son didn't want to work all day every day just to pay a huge premium. Luckily the MOP didn't die so the claim was under two mil.....consider that. I knew all parties & it wasn't a pleasant experience.

I'd hazzard that if you were a tenant the landowner would probably have something in writing about those padocks with FP's crossing over & this would be reflected in the rent. I'd also hazzard that your insurance co would also have this as a clause in todays litigious society. Underwritten by Zurich of course.
SS

 

[bobk]

Not been here for a while but felt that I should post on this matter.
Livestock farming is a risky business. In England the public have a right to walk on public footpaths in safety. Simples. If you have cattle in that paddock be it on you. Yes the public do strange things but you have a legal duty to mitigate this.
I was party to a trampling & have mentioned it, quite possibly on the 'old' forum. I forget as it was a long time ago.
If your cattle trample someone & kill them I would hazzard that your next insurance premium would be so high that you'd not run cattle again on your farm again, ever. Simple. Move the cattle to somewhere there's no footpaths that's not difficult. If you don't you are running a real knife edge. If you can't then buy a new farm or do something else with the land.
The Farm that I'm talking about, where a MOP was trampled, went out of business within three years. The elderly farmer 'retired early' & son didn't want to work all day every day just to pay a huge premium. Luckily the MOP didn't die so the claim was under two mil.....consider that. I knew all parties & it wasn't a pleasant experience.

I'd hazzard that if you were a tenant the landowner would probably have something in writing about those padocks with FP's crossing over & this would be reflected in the rent. I'd also hazzard that your insurance co would also have this as a clause in todays litigious society. Underwritten by Zurich of course.
SS

Evidence that proves footpaths on private land should be voluntary.

 

[Lincoln75]

Evidence that proves footpaths on private land should be voluntary.

In English please...

 

[michael N123]

Farmers should have the right to close footpaths if there’s livestock

 

[Lincoln75]

Farmers should have the right to close footpaths if there’s livestock

Never happen however if the right minister got behind a scheme where you could temporarily re route / move footpaths and allow users the same destination then you may have a chance.

 

[Lovegoodstock]

This thread is simply summing up the blame culture route our country is descending into, people that are so by the book they think everything is easily solved yet have no idea of the real world, may be harsh and rude but simply is the truth and sorry if the truth hurts. @milkloss , your point is a good one to be fair, in principal, yet 75% of footpath walkers on my land are incapable of sticking to mapped and signed paths, straying everywhere, coming onto yard, to family home and nosing through kitchen window as we lived in a very old interesting house, the hope of them checking a path temporarily closed or re routed is sadly an unrealistic idea and a non starter. @Lincoln75 , good on you that you adore your dog, you may be on a par with me but you will not be more passionate about your dog than I am. Impossible. Which makes me wonder why you did something so stupid to endanger your dog if you loved it so much. Sure dog will go behind you for protection, but chances are cow was interested in dog, if you left cow and it chased and you went for hedge or gate to escape the dog wouldn't have been behind or in front of you for protection, it would have ran for safety. Perhaps you are usain bolt but if you are not then the dog would have stood more of a chance outrunning the cow on its own than being cradled in your arms where it stood no chance of escape. Id also suggest being careful on a public forum of stating how you physically attacked a cow that was probably a new mother and risking lasting damage to her by stoning her... presuming no video evidence so your safe, but that offence can come with a 5 to 7 year jail term.. @suffolksmallholder your point is valid but seriously unrealistic, do you actually believe what you are saying or just winding folks up? We have mainly cows and calve, all year round calving so most fields are stocked with cows and calves, almost every field has a footpath, so not an option to just move them onto another field as you state. Also one of the few fields with no paths has a couple of bulls on putting on condition ready to serve the aforementioned cows, cant have 2 bulls on a footpath with no cows so don't have the option of swapping fields. Suggestion of if you cant work it sell up and buy another farm, oh so easy, find me a farm near by of 850 acres all within one block ring fenced, and lose I guess a 6 figure sum on commission so I can look after general public that have this "right" for no fee, on the back of a centuries old creation designed for a complete different purpose. I thought along your lines and selling up to avoid footpath walkers coming onto land with cows, but then found one blocked land drain creating a muddy strip and an odd bit of maize diverted them elsewhere, easier than moving away from family and changing kids school and stressing 3000 animals with a completely unnecessary and stupid movement. On a final point, did the farmers you knew with the sad death of a path walker, go out of business within 3 years or give up as son didn't want to pay the higher insurance premiums? I guess if he went out of business as you said he wouldn't be able to pay the higher rate of policy, but as you also said he chose to sell up as he didn't want to pay, I got confused

 

[SLA]

Seriously??? You think that the answer is no cows in fields with footpath/public access??
That is about the silliest thing I’ve read on here!
The biggest problems being the assumption dogs and people are only walking on said footpaths.
My cattle graze a couple of nature reserves, full public access although no dogs, that’s cows, calves and the bull.
Stags, rams, horses and dogs have all attacked and killed people or left them with serious injuries so what should we be grazing our meadows with?
Maybe we should plant it all with trees or rip it up and go arable, maybe we should start farming freerange rabbits?

 

[puppet]

Have to say we have alot of experiance in this department after being sued by a walker who said one of our cows knocked him over. The NFU paid him 30k for a sprained elbow despite only witness being his friend and us not being informed for 5 months when the no win no fee lawyers contacted us.

5. The NFU were a good help moving the path (after initially not wanting to know) but offered no fight against the claim as "they didnt want to open the floodgates". They increased their premium the following year by an eye watering sum.

Surely they have opened the floodgates by paying that amount for a sprained elbow which was not immediately notified. Probably added in a few flashbacks and loss of sleep.

There might be something to be said for a full Right to Roam as up here there is a code of practice for walkers to take responsibility for themselves, keep dogs on leads and not do damage. You then have a case where you can argue the farmer has taken reasonable care not to have aggressive cattle where most walkers go but they have been warned there is still a risk.
I would not walk through my cows and young calves with the collie so why should anyone else.

 

[ajcc]

You walk on a.public footpath at your own risk same as you walk on pavement in the town. Cars/lorries occasionally run pedestrians over, muggers assault and rob them. If you consider it dangerous area to walk in you turn back or avoid that’s what 70% of people do when confronted with cows on our path actually quite effective deterrent.

 

[hally]

You walk on a.public footpath at your own risk same as you walk on pavement in the town. Cars/lorries occasionally run pedestrians over, muggers assault and rob them. If you consider it dangerous area to walk in you turn back or avoid that’s what 70% of people do when confronted with cows on our path actually quite effective deterrent.

The point is the legal obligation is with the farmer. It goes against everything that's right in my opinion but cows and people are best kept apart. Everybody has to weigh up the risk to their business if they get sued but I can guarantee that you will be picking up the costs.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I think, we as a country, need to have a proper discussion and debate, about what the countryside is for, and what are the limits of private ownership. If we wish, to produce food in the countryside (which I think should be a top priority) we need to put limits on public access, or if we as a country wish to have the countryside just for public to walk on/have picnics (and fly tip/engage in illicit sex) we as a democracy should make that decision, bearing in mind what the dissolution of private ownership would do to our economic prospects (with rights of ownership being reduced this would vastly reduce investment in anything and therefore our jobs etc ~ this is what I worry about if Jeremy Corbin gets elected, but that is another thead), and if we export all our food production, I think that would be very foolish, but our politicians need to explain and not just let us sleep walk into running down British food production. I have never heard such tosh, as, you as a farmer should not keep cows and calves on fields with footpaths! Footpaths were for the postman to deliver mail, NOT all and sundry and their dog to wander round. I think if people want to walk on land, buy the land, if I want to drive a Lamborghini I either buy one or rent one, and if I can't afford to do either, then I must accept that.

 

[Lincoln75]

@Lincoln75[/USER] , good on you that you adore your dog, you may be on a par with me but you will not be more passionate about your dog than I am. Impossible. Which makes me wonder why you did something so stupid to endanger your dog if you loved it so much. Sure dog will go behind you for protection, but chances are cow was interested in dog, if you left cow and it chased and you went for hedge or gate to escape the dog wouldn't have been behind or in front of you for protection, it would have ran for safety. Perhaps you are usain bolt but if you are not then the dog would have stood more of a chance outrunning the cow on its own than being cradled in your arms where it stood no chance of escape. Id also suggest being careful on a public forum of stating how you physically attacked a cow that was probably a new mother and risking lasting damage to her by stoning her... presuming no video evidence so your safe, but that offence can come with a 5 to 7 year jail term..

As I mentioned I`ve worked with livestock for many years , this cow (a belted galloway ) only moved closer as I tried to chase her off , no fear of me at all , it happened on moorland and the nearest gate was over half a mile away , the dog is a not so quick on his feet Jack Russell, as for "attacking" (your words) the cow there was good reason to do what I did and it worked ,I know from experience that if I hadnt it would have been A&E at the least, if the farmer had seen and wanted to challenge it I think he would be the one being prosecuted for the reason in post no1.

 

[bjreroberts]

That would mean sell all cattle here

Sadly for suckler herds, yes. The risks are clear and with the increasing prominence of these incidents in the media it will only be a matter of time before it will be uninsurable.

 

[Fallowfield]

I think, we as a country, need to have a proper discussion and debate, about what the countryside is for, and what are the limits of private ownership. If we wish, to produce food in the countryside (which I think should be a top priority) we need to put limits on public access, or if we as a country wish to have the countryside just for public to walk on/have picnics (and fly tip/engage in illicit sex) we as a democracy should make that decision, bearing in mind what the dissolution of private ownership would do to our economic prospects (with rights of ownership being reduced this would vastly reduce investment in anything and therefore our jobs etc ~ this is what I worry about if Jeremy Corbin gets elected, but that is another thead), and if we export all our food production, I think that would be very foolish, but our politicians need to explain and not just let us sleep walk into running down British food production. I have never heard such tosh, as, you as a farmer should not keep cows and calves on fields with footpaths! Footpaths were for the postman to deliver mail, NOT all and sundry and their dog to wander round. I think if people want to walk on land, buy the land, if I want to drive a Lamborghini I either buy one or rent one, and if I can't afford to do either, then I must accept that.

Given that the problem facing the UK is obesity, not starvation, I'm not sure why you think food production should be the top priority for the countryside.

But if that is to be the top priority then we should be aiming for far fewer, far larger farms, full on industrial farming, feed lots etc with cattle kept indoors and land put over to production of silage and fodder crops.

That would produce more food, and would allow people to walk footpaths free from the risk of encountering cattle.

It would also mean far fewer farmers of course, but needs must, if food production is to be the top priority.