Any chance the government will subsidise fertiliser?

Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
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Dave645

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
N Lincs
As above really. Can't see much appetite at current price so reduction in output follows. Very simple logic. Surely they will try something????
I would rather they underright the cost of uk makers to get started making nitrogen and get their factories running flat out, then if the world market price drops below the cost to make the nitrogen the government cover the difference.
If it doesn’t then the government has nothing to pay.

the problem for CF is if they make nitrogen and later nitrogen prices fall they are stuck holding nitrogen they have to sell at a loss, it’s safer at the moment for CF to sit on the fence and not make nitrogen because that stops them making nitrogen with expensive natural gas with the risk of if world prices fall they have to sell it at a loss.

so if the government under rights the production so the risk is not on CF then they can get started and if they do it’s more than likely they could cover most of the uk nitrogen needs.
I will say we will still be at the mercy of world prices but availability should be less of a problem.
 

Dave645

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
N Lincs
Subsidise wholesale gas, bring the energy cost for most consumers down.

Nationalise CF factories.
The reality is North Sea gas is about 48% of uk consumption the cost of getting it out of the ground is I expect not going up as much as it’s prices is, so fossil fuel companies will be raking it in. . .
I can think of one way to cap gas and oil prices to some extent, and not cost tax payers much. Maybe they are already doing so
 

Dave645

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
N Lincs
This government subsidise fertiliser :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
I agree I don’t see them subsidising fert, but we could see a price spiral, fert goes up, wheat goes up as farmers around the world cut production to stay profitable, and government intervention can steady the ship.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
The reality is North Sea gas is about 48% of uk consumption the cost of getting it out of the ground is I expect not going up as much as it’s prices is, so fossil fuel companies will be raking it in. . .
I can think of one way to cap gas and oil prices to some extent, and not cost tax payers much. Maybe they are already doing so
trouble is the big oil companies BP, Shell etc. are going to need every penny they can find to make up for the write downs in Russia.
I see the Blackstone Asset management are writing their Russian holding down from $18 to $1 Billion
you may think why should we have any sympathy with those people, well that is your and I's pensions
 
I would rather they underright the cost of uk makers to get started making nitrogen and get their factories running flat out, then if the world market price drops below the cost to make the nitrogen the government cover the difference.
If it doesn’t then the government has nothing to pay.

the problem for CF is if they make nitrogen and later nitrogen prices fall they are stuck holding nitrogen they have to sell at a loss, it’s safer at the moment for CF to sit on the fence and not make nitrogen because that stops them making nitrogen with expensive natural gas with the risk of if world prices fall they have to sell it at a loss.

so if the government under rights the production so the risk is not on CF then they can get started and if they do it’s more than likely they could cover most of the uk nitrogen needs.
I will say we will still be at the mercy of world prices but availability should be less of a problem.
The lack of the “by-product” CO2 was what prompted the restart of fert production. Never forget that.
If the cost of that CO2 to the food industry was increased by a multiple of tens then perhaps the increase in charge for fert could be moderated.
 

Dave645

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
N Lincs
trouble is the big oil companies BP, Shell etc. are going to need every penny they can find to make up for the write downs in Russia.
I see the Blackstone Asset management are writing their Russian holding down from $18 to $1 Billion
you may think why should we have any sympathy with those people, well that is your and I's pensions
While I am sure your right, those pensions are worth zip, if food production around the world spirals out of control.

Food production next year is more important than pension funds being earned from North Sea gas profits.
If world crop production fell by 20% on the back of lack of fert or fert prices the results will be far worse than shell BP profits for one year being zero.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Fertiliser manufacturers, like all users of Gas energy, buy their gas early as a price stabilisation exercise.

When CF sold all their gas to be used in their 2 UK factories at a huge profit in 2021, then paid out a huge dividend and stopped production, it very soon became obvious that every bit of the CO2 byproduct it created was vitally needed in other industries.

The UK Government stepped in, ordering CF to restart fertilisers production, ONLY because it needed that CO2 byproduct.

CF then said it couldn’t because it had no gas to use for the production. So the Government in effect gave them the gas to start production again.

So in effect, the Government has already indirectly subsidised fertiliser.

As Michael Caine famously said, “Not a lot of people [The pubic] know that.”


I cannot see the U.K. Government directly subsidising fertilisers to farmers, because it directly goes against Government Environmental (ELMS) policy.
OR until affordable food becomes short, when Michael Caine will have to say “Not a lot of people KNEW that, but they bloody well do now!”
 
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Iben

Member
Location
Fife
I'm surprised that nobody has brought up G. Useless' infallible plan that he brought up at the NFU Conference of carting all of the shite produced by livestock in the west to the arable country in the east. Slightly uneconomic, especially at today's fuel prices I think.

The sad thing is. In my grandfather's day, they used to collect a lot of dung off the train that brought it from Glasgow.

So typically, with modern mechanisation/ efficiencies and handling, it now costs 5 times more and is now uneconomic to do. 🤷
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Not a chance in hell, greening is all that maters to politicians now, less fertiliser & fuel used is their creed who cares if the poor go hungry they certainly don't!
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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