any opinions on smart trace bolus

[andybk]

just had my bloods results back , seems we are low on selenium , 34.00- 49.00 , need to be above 50 according to vet , , but very high copper levels which were around 19-25 should be around 18 max , where that has come from is anyones guess as we dont feed any compounds just straights , he recommended smart trace , i was offered a starter pack reduced as the date is just expired , presume it inc the bolus gun , any opinions , or a better bolus ?

oops just found an old thread on smart trace

 

[neilo]

Smart trace boluses are good, but the Animax 3-in-1 does similar in a smaller package. The downside of the Animax one is that you have to give copper as a separate capsule, but it doesn't sound like you need that.

If you are only low in Selenium, I'd be inclined to drench pre-tupping, and probably again when you do pre-lambing jabs. Se is stored in the body for a time, so a boost before critical times might be the simplest/most effective/cheapest option perhaps?

 

[jemski]

I used the smart trace ones this year because bloods came back marginally high selenium, and they have about half the amount of selenium as the animax ones. I'd never ever use them again. They are horrific to administer. I've never had a problem with animax, but the smart race ones are huge. I had to wait for the ewe to almost swallow the gun to get them far enough down that they didn't spit them out. It took twice as long as I just had to be very gentle and patient as I was terrified of damaging them, and they hated it!!!!

 

[andybk]

thanks all , i was a bit worried about the drench not lasting , but levels arnt that bad so will go with that now , maybe bolus at scanning to cover lambing , will look at those animax ones

 

[AvonValleyFarmer]

Have you thought about jabbing them with selenium @andybk ? My Ewes show low selenium in the winter so I jab them with Vitasel when doing there Hep boosters. Works well.

 

[neilo]

thanks all , i was a bit worried about the drench not lasting , but levels arnt that bad so will go with that now , maybe bolus at scanning to cover lambing , will look at those animax ones

I drench just before tupping, to give a (cheaper), short acting boost, and also give a small Mayo lamb bolus at the same time to give a longer tail off. Then I bolus at scanning, or in mid-pregnancy for the April lambers that are out on roots all winter. Seems to work OK, without quite the expense of double bolusing.

Mayo have just brought out a small all-in one bolus too, which might be another one to consider? Not on their website yet though.

 

[andybk]

Have you thought about jabbing them with selenium @andybk ? My Ewes show low selenium in the winter so I jab them with Vitasel when doing there Hep boosters. Works well.

sounds a good idea , do you give anything in summer ? bolus/ drench

 

[AvonValleyFarmer]

sounds a good idea , do you give anything in summer ? bolus/ drench

No I've never given anything in the summer. Occasionally drench the lambs with multi vit, but not the ewes.

 

[andybk]

any advice on bolus guns re animax for later use ? or are they all the same , obvs will have to fit size of bolus , ?

 

[bovine]

Drenching is no use really for selenium. The amount you'd need to give at once would cause toxicity. Will give nothing more than a short term boost. Bolus is the answer.

 

[dogandstick]

Is it safe to give Texels copper bolus in high molybdenum area?

 

[bovine]

Is it safe to give Texels copper bolus in high molybdenum area?

No.

Need testing of blood and ideally liver copper levels before you even think about it.

So need it, some die. Test first

 

[neilo]

Drenching is no use really for selenium. The amount you'd need to give at once would cause toxicity. Will give nothing more than a short term boost. Bolus is the answer.

I was only suggesting it as a short term boost over tupping, but then Selenium isn't too bad here, only slightly deficient, so a short term boost is OK.

 

[neilo]

No.

Need testing of blood and ideally liver copper levels before you even think about it.

So need it, some die. Test first

I was once told, by a mineral bucket salesman, that chelated copper used in some buckets was safer. I was sceptical, as I am of most mineral salesman's claims, but any evidence for it?

I certainly wouldn't want to feed copper in buckets, loos mins or blocks, for any extended period of time, but have used dairy mins for a short term boost (over tupping) in the past. Plenty round here seem to keep them out with a Texel X ewes, seemingly without problems.

 

[bovine]

I tend to ignore all the claims made by mineral salesmen. They don't do scientific trials, but sell them based on testimonials and theory. I won't go into detail but I know a vet who did a trial looking at one of the boluses and as they showed nothing positive they tried to cover up the results and not get them published.

Minerals are black magic, where different solutions work on different farms. I am convinced that the great majority are wasted, it's a massive cost to the industry. People supplement in ineffective ways (drench) or bolus when they don't need to. Wasted money on expensive sweets (licks) or powder that get wasted.

My view is simple that for an animal to produce efficiently it needs the right amount of everything every day. It doesn't have to be hard, but it does require some testing and follow up testing.

 

[andybk]

would a min bucket with se provide a short term boost over tupping rather, than drench or vax , as i have a number here in the shed molased gen purpose (se 10mg/kg) , i could then bolus mid pregnancy (early ewes are at extensive pasture at present being flushed for tupping in a few weeks )

 

[bovine]

dunno. You can try.

I've said before that my experience with licks is vastly different levels in different animals. Not good enough for a group.

Sometimes (with bad deficiency) you may need to drench AND bolus to bring levels up to normal and then keep them there. Badly deficient animals can fail to respond just to boluses.

 

[neilo]

would a min bucket with se provide a short term boost over tupping rather, than drench or vax , as i have a number here in the shed molased gen purpose (se 10mg/kg) , i could then bolus mid pregnancy (early ewes are at extensive pasture at present being flushed for tupping in a few weeks )

That's all the various 'tupping' buckets do, you just can't be sure they've all taken it.

 

[neilo]

Sometimes (with bad deficiency) you may need to drench AND bolus to bring levels up to normal and then keep them there. Badly deficient animals can fail to respond just to boluses.

That's exactly what we, and several others locally, found last year with Iodine. I had bolused lambs falling off a cliff until they had a drench.

I was talking to my vet about it the other day, who said they were seeing the same I levels on sheep they'd tested locally this year. He did wonder whether Potassium Iodide blocks (cheap as chips apparently) might get the levels up, then bolus to keep them there. They also made up an Iodine drench to do the lifting last year, that I was told worked out at about tuppence a dose.