- Location
- south norfolk
as above.how does it compare to cereals for costs and what sort of yield can be expected
Nick...
Nick...
Anyone doing ryegrass for whole crop
- Thread starter nick...
- Start date
Digester Man
Member
I take it you mean rye cereal (hybrid rye) as opposed to rye grass? We do both. Getting ready to cut the rye whole crop in about a week to 10 days time, we don't have a bridge yet but I would be confident it's hitting 15-16t /acre. It's 6 foot tall
£35/tonne delivered in to the local AD boys apparently. At those yields you suggesting a that's not a bad gross margin.
- Location
- Cumbria
It really depends on the DM and should be priced accordingly. eg: x per % DM. --- So, growing costs + margin+transport. Calculated at optimum Crop DM (forage rye say 30%). Example only: growing costs £32.00 + transport £2.00 and margin of 20% £6.80 = £40.80/ton / 30= £1.36 per % DM delivered to the clamp x number of tons.
This is a reasonable way to ensure fairness and puts the value where it should be.
Digester Man
Member
Good luck valuing it at £40 a ton when barley grain is barely making over £100. I know yours is just an example but the value is also linked to cereal prices, not just the cost of growing plus a set margin
- Location
- Cumbria
One of the few things I disagree with you on Rob_AD. You may want to try to link Grain and Silage prices, however they are far and away removed unless you live in the Garden of England and have all the choices of what to grow and who to supply. Silage is perishable and is deteriorating from the second it is cut, unlike grain. In addition Silage is not a world commodity. So, the simple example above is what I would encourage everyone to use when valuing silages as a feed stock for AD Plants, in addition, make hay while the sun shines because if the new regulations currently doing the rounds are applied, it is over for on-farm AD.
With regards to growing crops to fuel the ad plants? That's what I've heard also.
- Location
- Cumbria
In addition to reducing the payments for Energy Crop fed plants by 50%, the tariff is also being cut. Even worse above 500kw the tariff is being removed all together.
So, if you are willing to fight for the industry, now is the time, and I am afraid the clock is ticking.
Pressurise your local MP to raise this subject in the House of Commons and write to the Energy Minister. At a time when Agriculture is on it's knee's AD offered a glimmer of light, soon to be snuffed out.
This time next year most will be out of a job ( you may survive Rob_AD if they don't take to many ROC's in march
)
Digester Man
Member
I am not familiar with the GB system but in Northern Ireland they are removing all support from April 2017, as you maybe already know we don't get a feed in tariff or RHI but instead we get ROCs. All the plants here are on farm apart from a handful doing waste and I am not aware there are any plans other than the closure of the RO to new generation.
- Location
- Cumbria
I assume something will replace the NIROC's ? However I also assume the English Governments refusal to pay extra in NI via direct taxation across the whole of the UK may reduce the values substantially ?
Arlene Foster July 2014.
Renewables incentivisation policy in Northern Ireland is unavoidably influenced by European and UK energy policy. The closure of the NIRO to new applications in 2017 is due to UK-wide Electricity Market Reform and means that how we incentivise renewables will be changing. Large scale renewable electricity will be supported under a Contracts for Difference mechanism and it is my intention to introduce a Small Scale Feed-In Tariff (FIT) from 2017, similar to that already in operation in Great Britain.
Arlene Foster July 2014.
Renewables incentivisation policy in Northern Ireland is unavoidably influenced by European and UK energy policy. The closure of the NIRO to new applications in 2017 is due to UK-wide Electricity Market Reform and means that how we incentivise renewables will be changing. Large scale renewable electricity will be supported under a Contracts for Difference mechanism and it is my intention to introduce a Small Scale Feed-In Tariff (FIT) from 2017, similar to that already in operation in Great Britain.
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Digester Man
Member
At the moment there's nothing on the table from DETI but hopefully that will change. Contracts for difference have been talked about but at the moment the only certainty is that it all stops next April.
I know that is a very generous example but your transport is way too generous.
Example:
2 loads @ 16t per load = 32 tonnes
£2/tonne haulage = £64/hour
Margin of 20%
Total £76.80/hour
How many tractors would you like me to supply ?!?!
Seriously though your tractors either need to be on by the hour or paid by tonne/mile which could be very confusing.
If you are pricing it @40.80/tonne and work it back to a cereal yield of 3.5 tonnes of wheat your price would be about £175.
IMO you are paying too high of a price than market value for your feedstock. When the cereal market is lower than that.
Interesting thread mind.
Agree that £1.36 %dm is way over the top
There are plenty of feedstocks available at sub £1.00 and it is these feedstocks that set the benchmark and not the price of grain.
Gas to grid ad at today's rhi tariffs simply does not work unless feedstock is at sub £1.00dm and quoting higher figures only gives farmers false hope value that is simply not there.
- Location
- Cumbria
Pheeew........can I reiterate for those who have difficulty with the Queens English Example only: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trebor07, I do not want to be un-polite but you have totally missed the f@@@ing point !!
The objective of the post was to try and help shift the cost towards the DM content.
Reduce the costs, increase the costs, do what you want, but please think first...............
Rant over.....
Trebor07, I do not want to be un-polite but you have totally missed the f@@@ing point !!
The objective of the post was to try and help shift the cost towards the DM content.
Reduce the costs, increase the costs, do what you want, but please think first...............
Rant over.....
Digester Man
Member
Dry matter but also quality - grass especially needs to be related to ME (or some other measure of quality) as well as DM%
In reality it's not easy to price a forage fairly and it will always be subject to some influence from local factors. At least it gives some new options to arable growers which weren't really on the table until AD came along
In reality it's not easy to price a forage fairly and it will always be subject to some influence from local factors. At least it gives some new options to arable growers which weren't really on the table until AD came along
- Location
- Cumbria
Fair point, but. Grass is the most difficult crop for several reasons, putting the operational ones to one side, the variation in quality in comparison to Maize is huge. However, making bio-methane is not the same as feeding an animal (despite everyone making the comparison). The variation in BMP of grass means you cannot ' cover all bases ' so DM is the best indicator, this is where the VS (volatile solids) that are biodegradable are. Most credible AD companies SHOULD calculate BMP production based on the rolling average for grass, because in most cases this will be exceeded. So, in summary if you really wanted to ' fine tune ' payments for any AD feed-stock it should be based on the VS% (which varies). Tons of VS in the clamp/tank is the objective.................
Example or not... Don't post rediculous figures because people beleive them !!
Sounds like somebodies tired !!!
- Location
- Cumbria
Example or not... Don't post rediculous figures because people beleive them !!
Sounds like somebodies tired !!!
I can only refer you to here (page 17): http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp/w...silage-for-better-returns-manual-5-160915.pdf
and here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/what-does-it-cost-to-make-clamp-silage.7905/
Both are similar and a couple of years old............now I'll go and have a lie down
I can only refer you to here (page 17): http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp/w...silage-for-better-returns-manual-5-160915.pdf
and here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/what-does-it-cost-to-make-clamp-silage.7905/
Both are similar and a couple of years old............now I'll go and have a lie down
That's grass.
The post is about Hybrid Rye. Totally different.
Those cost of production are quite a bit different to an integrated business operation
Must admit I did think the costings for the rye did look a bit on the expensive side before your 20% margin. I've been costing out our forages to get a feel for what sort of price I could sell at versus what people are prepared to buy at. It's all very well wanting to sell for a nice margin but the market price is the market price and you have to work from there. Just ask any dairy farmer.