Applying no bagged P or K to crops

[Flat 10]

That is good money

How can they justify that?!

 

[Brisel]

How can they justify that?!

Soil health? A ham fisted attempt at reducing soil erosion and nitrate leaching? Seems short sighted in a nation with so many livestock, but I haven’t looked at the story and the theory behind it yet.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[Flat 10]

Soil health? A ham fisted attempt at reducing soil erosion and nitrate leaching? Seems short sighted in a nation with so many livestock, but I haven’t looked at the story and the theory behind it yet.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

I get that as a devoted straw chopper myself it’s just the payment seems way too high...
25euro rather 250 would be more understandable.

 

[Hard Graft]

The lads in Ireland will often clear £100 per ac for straw but my understanding is it is carbon based but they worrying about nh3 from dairy cows on slats etc but not straw yards

 

[Cowcorn]

I get that as a devoted straw chopper myself it’s just the payment seems way too high...
25euro rather 250 would be more understandable.

Whats too high about it !! Id take 500 if i got it Its probably based on the average price and yield of straw and as the scheme has a budget of 10 million the payment will be lower if to many acres are entered . The aim is to get around 20 % of the straw returned to the land to help increase om levels and also to put floor in the market to put a few extra quid in growers pockets . The Gov has been getting serious grief over the plight of the cereal sector and has committed to helping the sector . After all the cash the splashed on the Dairy boyos its about time .
Note i always take off my Dairy hat when im finished milking The country is a better place with a mix of livestock and arable farms and as most of the Arable farmers are operating across hundreds rather than thousands of acres the need a little support now and then . Anyway these Dairy boomers can well afford to pay a little more for their straw if the rents the bid for land are anything to go by .
One of my clients still owes me for 200 bales and this Saturday his door is going to be left flat on the ground when i start kicking it in looking for payment . Its the like of him that take the good out of the Straw job his share is definitely going into the scheme . Anyway we will see how this pan out . Its a horrid crack the whole thing

 

[Flat 10]

Whats too high about it !! Id take 500 if i got it Its probably based on the average price and yield of straw and as the scheme has a budget of 10 million the payment will be lower if to many acres are entered . The aim is to get around 20 % of the straw returned to the land to help increase om levels and also to put floor in the market to put a few extra quid in growers pockets . The Gov has been getting serious grief over the plight of the cereal sector and has committed to helping the sector . After all the cash the splashed on the Dairy boyos its about time .
Note i always take off my Dairy hat when im finished milking The country is a better place with a mix of livestock and arable farms and as most of the Arable farmers are operating across hundreds rather than thousands of acres the need a little support now and then . Anyway these Dairy boomers can well afford to pay a little more for their straw if the rents the bid for land are anything to go by .
One of my clients still owes me for 200 bales and this Saturday his door is going to be left flat on the ground when i start kicking it in looking for payment . Its the like of him that take the good out of the Straw job his share is definitely going into the scheme . Anyway we will see how this pan out . Its a horrid crack the whole thing

What plight of the cereal sector?!

 

[DrWazzock]

We have ploughed in chopped straw for just about every of the last 40 years and to be honest we can’t tell that it’s made any difference. But that’s probably because we ploughed it in and oxidised it/ diluted it, some would say. Min tillage or direct drilling leaves it nearer the surface so it’s maybe more noticeable and beneficial. The land here seems to eat organic matter. I remember a lad dumping 30 tons of cattle yard muck on an allotment in our stack yard. Maybe 15 metres by 15 metres. Dad spread it with 360 and it was about 2 foot deep. Worked it in with the bucket. We grew good veg on it for a few years then lost interest. 20 years later you wouldn’t know it was ever there. Back to couch grass on pure sand you could put straight into egg timers. Where did the OM go?

 

[Cowcorn]

What plight of the cereal sector?!

Poor prices, bad weather, high input costs . The cereal sector has been hit hardest in the rebalancing of the sfp . Teagasc farm income data shows the slippage in cereal grower incomes compared to the Dairy sector . Remember we are talking about small and medium sized farms here not large estates . Farming is still very important over here and the pr electoral system makes sure that politicans take notice . Farmers contribute to the well being and prosperity of the nation and are entitled to a fair shake .

 

[Flat 10]

Poor prices, bad weather, high input costs . The cereal sector has been hit hardest in the rebalancing of the sfp . Teagasc farm income data shows the slippage in cereal grower incomes compared to the Dairy sector . Remember we are talking about small and medium sized farms here not large estates . Farming is still very important over here and the pr electoral system makes sure that politicans take notice . Farmers contribute to the well being and prosperity of the nation and are entitled to a fair shake .

How has your sfp been rebalanced? Always made me laugh that the 'common' ag policy was always anything but common...... Even within what is technically the same country........... (wales and scotland have been very different to england as i understand it)

 

[Cowcorn]

How has your sfp been rebalanced? Always made me laugh that the 'common' ag policy was always anything but common...... Even within what is technically the same country...........

When the sfp was first introduced payments were based on the average of a the previous three years . As arable farmers were paid arable aid on an area basis rather than on a per head basis like livestock farmers the were given the option to stack their intitlements
This doubled the per acre value of them and halved the amount of land required to collect them . Many myself included took full advantage and kicked a lot of low margin rented ground back . The beauty of the scheme was the farmer not the landowner owned the entitlement and it was the gift that kept on giving . When the Cilos reforms started to flatten the entitlement value those of us with high value entitlements from stacking were severely hit
Over your side of the puddle whereas the Welsh and Scotch opted for the historic model like over here the English came up with a cunning plan called the dynamic hybrid to restore the entitlement value to landlords and make sure that tenants didnt get much advantage @glasshouse is the man who can explain how fischler reform should have worked until the CLA and the Gov got together to mininise the benefit to tenants . The British establishment has form when it comes to diluting european farmer support schemes so sadly no surprise .

 

[glasshouse]

When the sfp was first introduced payments were based on the average of a the previous three years . As arable farmers were paid arable aid on an area basis rather than on a per head basis like livestock farmers the were given the option to stack their intitlements
This doubled the per acre value of them and halved the amount of land required to collect them . Many myself included took full advantage and kicked a lot of low margin rented ground back . The beauty of the scheme was the farmer not the landowner owned the entitlement and it was the gift that kept on giving . When the Cilos reforms started to flatten the entitlement value those of us with high value entitlements from stacking were severely hit
Over your side of the puddle whereas the Welsh and Scotch opted for the historic model like over here the English came up with a cunning plan called the dynamic hybrid to restore the entitlement value to landlords and make sure that tenants didnt get much advantage @glasshouse is the man who can explain how fischler reform should have worked until the CLA and the Gov got together to mininise the benefit to tenants . The British establishment has form when it comes to diluting european farmer support schemes so sadly no surprise .

Double like for that.

 

[Flat 10]

When the sfp was first introduced payments were based on the average of a the previous three years . As arable farmers were paid arable aid on an area basis rather than on a per head basis like livestock farmers the were given the option to stack their intitlements
This doubled the per acre value of them and halved the amount of land required to collect them . Many myself included took full advantage and kicked a lot of low margin rented ground back . The beauty of the scheme was the farmer not the landowner owned the entitlement and it was the gift that kept on giving . When the Cilos reforms started to flatten the entitlement value those of us with high value entitlements from stacking were severely hit
Over your side of the puddle whereas the Welsh and Scotch opted for the historic model like over here the English came up with a cunning plan called the dynamic hybrid to restore the entitlement value to landlords and make sure that tenants didnt get much advantage @glasshouse is the man who can explain how fischler reform should have worked until the CLA and the Gov got together to mininise the benefit to tenants . The British establishment has form when it comes to diluting european farmer support schemes so sadly no surprise .

Only thing I would say is the historic system made it harder for new entrants did it not?

 

[glasshouse]

Only thing I would say is the historic system made it harder for new entrants did it not?

The only thing wrong with the historic sfp was the lack of an ongoing reserve for new entrants.
There was a reserve at the start , but that wasnt fairly divided at all.

 

[warksfarmer]

Years ago, I understand a lot of sewage sludge was applied to land in a largely untreated form, well, after it was de-watered at any rate. The stuff used today, if it's been through an AD system is a different beast.

Basically, the bacteria involved destroy or attack anything, even in conventional treatment works. The only thing they can't handle is heavy metals, which is less of an issue these days as there isn't as much heavy industry about and heavy metals are actually recycled or recovered because they are valuable. Of course, plastics are very inert but shouldn't be in the product as they are screened out.

30 years ago we used to have the untreated stuff and my god it grew some fantastic crops. The treated stuff doesn’t produce anywhere near as good crops.

 

[fieldfarmer]

30 years ago we used to have the untreated stuff and my god it grew some fantastic crops. The treated stuff doesn’t produce anywhere near as good crops.

The allowed application rate would be very small now compared to 30 yrs ago though.

 

[warksfarmer]

The allowed application rate would be very small now compared to 30 yrs ago though.

Yep. I can’t remember what rates were applied but it was annually rather than biannually as it is now.
That always amazed me because it was pushed for annual application then when they started charging for it they suddenly decided it should only be every other year.
Now it’s delivered free again so they are coming back to how it was years ago. Application rate today is 21t/ha.

 

[fieldfarmer]

Yep. I can’t remember what rates were applied but it was annually rather than biannually as it is now.
That always amazed me because it was pushed for annual application then when they started charging for it they suddenly decided it should only be every other year.
Now it’s delivered free again so they are coming back to how it was years ago. Application rate today is 21t/ha.

Our spreading rates vary from 28 down to 12. 5 tons per hectare.

 

[steveR]

The allowed application rate would be very small now compared to 30 yrs ago though.

Very true.... We used to have teh stuff pumped from the treatment works and put through a dribble bar.... zillions of gallons of the stuff. Even top dressed with it on some really light land at 6m.