Are Contractors rates having to go up.

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
I didn't expect a serious response to that 😂 just demonstrating how stupid the days a week = profit idea is
That came from a guy who has run a machine for 40 years and has a very profitable business.

Its basic fag packet maths.

But you don't have any figures at all , but his are wrong.


I don't have one and I never will becausr I'm not interested in engaging in the race to the bottom. I do the odd bit of contracting if it's worth my while but not much, again because I'm not going out for a job where the best that can happen is I break even.
You don't have any figures , do the odd bit of contracting, but only when it's worth your while, without any figures.

Have you ever thought about doing consultancy for contractors?
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Did you do any straw baling last year ? Obviously not.
Seen plenty of haulage companies go bust, working all hours keeping the wheel turning to pay the capital tied up in the vehicles.
nope as no baler at the moment, but even when i had a baler i got a contractor to do the straw baling as it wasnt a profitable job for me due to travel time. obviously if i couldn't get a contractor and the weather was on the turn i would have done it myself but why would i do it for nothing otherwise?
 

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
Contracting isn’t a game and it isn’t done as “a way of life” I would wager that contractors have saved farmers a huge amount compared to DIY over thr last 40 years or so. Why should a contractor work for less per hour/acre/bale etc than what it would cost a farmer doing it himself? Ok contractors can scale up but many don’t have an asset like a farm behind them so it’s got to pay a sensible return. It’s business
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
nope as no baler at the moment, but even when i had a baler i got a contractor to do the straw baling as it wasnt a profitable job for me due to travel time. obviously if i couldn't get a contractor and the weather was on the turn i would have done it myself but why would i do it for nothing otherwise?
Profitable isn't always about the cost of doing the task , it's also about timeliness.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
That came from a guy who has run a machine for 40 years and has a very profitable business.

Its basic fag packet maths.

But you don't have any figures at all , but his are wrong.



You don't have any figures , do the odd bit of contracting, but only when it's worth your while, without any figures.

Have you ever thought about doing consultancy for contractors?
ok here goes
job1: topping 120-150 acres of pony paddocks around the local area at £10/acre
some of it gets done twice, so say 200+ acres. Would be 3 full working days maximum door to door (in reality its just whenever we are topping our own nearby or have a quiet afternoon)
one of the summer hands (£10/hr) does it using the wagon tractor and my 10ft topper
Hard to calculate exact running costs for a square cab JD 3040, but id estimate £20/hour for the tractor including fuel and allowing for breakdowns, as it only does 300-400 hours a year, and needs something spent on it most years. maybe a set of blades for the topper as well, but i do 500 acres myself so :unsure:
job2: dump trailer
£55/hour like it or lump it
240hp tractor bought outright
im working on £30 for the tractor and fuel, has cost much less so far but i would expect a breakdown at some point

anything else i would price job by job, if they dont like the price they can get someone else who thinks they can make profit to do it

youve got a calculator so do with the figures what you like
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
ok here goes
job1: topping 120-150 acres of pony paddocks around the local area at £10/acre
some of it gets done twice, so say 200+ acres. Would be 3 full working days maximum door to door (in reality its just whenever we are topping our own nearby or have a quiet afternoon)
one of the summer hands (£10/hr) does it using the wagon tractor and my 10ft topper
Hard to calculate exact running costs for a square cab JD 3040, but id estimate £20/hour for the tractor including fuel and allowing for breakdowns, as it only does 300-400 hours a year, and needs something spent on it most years. maybe a set of blades for the topper as well, but i do 500 acres myself so :unsure:
job2: dump trailer
£55/hour like it or lump it
240hp tractor bought outright
im working on £30 for the tractor and fuel, has cost much less so far but i would expect a breakdown at some point

anything else i would price job by job, if they dont like the price they can get someone else who thinks they can make profit to do it

youve got a calculator so do with the figures what you like
Very good.
Those aren't necessarily farm contracts though are they? that can make a big difference compared to straight farm jobs, there's no difference in costs though of course.
 

powerontheland

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Hockley Essex
Seen plenty of haulage companies go bust, working all hours keeping the wheel turning to pay the capital tied up in the vehicles
There is such a thing as being a busy fool……………….I suspect that given some of the current rates, many farmers sons are being such.
At the current fuel prices it is costing upto £100/day EXTRA a day to run a tractor. You can bet your life that some people haven’t factored that in. :rolleyes:
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Very good.
Those aren't necessarily farm contracts though are they? that can make a big difference compared to straight farm jobs, there's no difference in costs though of course.
I agree completely, my costs don't change, so why should I work for free for some and not for others? If a job is worth doing I'll do it, if not I won't, doesn't matter who it's for, excepting helping out friends of course, but what goes around comes around. The not doing it part doesn't seem to occur in some contractors minds.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
ok here goes
job1: topping 120-150 acres of pony paddocks around the local area at £10/acre
some of it gets done twice, so say 200+ acres. Would be 3 full working days maximum door to door (in reality its just whenever we are topping our own nearby or have a quiet afternoon)
one of the summer hands (£10/hr) does it using the wagon tractor and my 10ft topper
Hard to calculate exact running costs for a square cab JD 3040, but id estimate £20/hour for the tractor including fuel and allowing for breakdowns, as it only does 300-400 hours a year, and needs something spent on it most years. maybe a set of blades for the topper as well, but i do 500 acres myself so :unsure:
job2: dump trailer
£55/hour like it or lump it
240hp tractor bought outright
im working on £30 for the tractor and fuel, has cost much less so far but i would expect a breakdown at some point

anything else i would price job by job, if they dont like the price they can get someone else who thinks they can make profit to do it

youve got a calculator so do with the figures what you like
All the big contractors round here do pony paddocks and at £10 /acre you are welcome to it!

You wouldn't even get a look anywhere local at £55/hr . More like £38. Not saying it right .

Tractor will need replacing at £150k at some point. Now sharpen that pencil!
 
That came from a guy who has run a machine for 40 years and has a very profitable business.

Its basic fag packet maths.

But you don't have any figures at all , but his are wrong.



You don't have any figures , do the odd bit of contracting, but only when it's worth your while, without any figures.

Have you ever thought about doing consultancy for contractors?
Would machine be a excavator ?? Or wheel digger because that would be a easier pieces kit to work out
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
All the big contractors round here do pony paddocks and at £10 /acre you are welcome to it!
2 grand for a 90hp tractor for 3 days, I will take it thanks very much

You wouldn't even get a look anywhere local at £55/hr . More like £38. Not saying it right .
exactly my point, they would be better off leaving it parked up, but no, they "have to make monthy payment" or "if i work saturday its profit" or some other ridiculous business argument. £55 take it or leave it

Tractor will need replacing at £150k at some point. Now sharpen that pencil!
if i were to go new to replace it it would be around £100k, a powershift 40k puma 200 or 225 would be the closest match.
i wont, but assuming i did it would still cost no more than £30/hour, hence why i use that figure. if the saving is absorbed by breakdowns because i run older machines so be it, if it ends up costing less then the saving from running old machines is for me, not for the customer.
if anything happened to it it would almost certainly be replaced by another old magnum
 
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som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
There is a big difference, in a farmers son, doing a bit of 'contracting', to earn a bit extra, on the farm tractor, to those that do it for their living, the two are neither compatible, or comparable, but such is life, we help our small contractor with a tractor/man, for silage. It knocks a big chunk off the bill, and we get a brilliant job, for our silage. Helps us a lot, but it doesn't help main stream contractors. We all know the problem, we don't get paid enough for our product, until that policy changes, nothing much is going to alter.
Then look at the value, of the silage teams kit, as they drive in the yard, huge amounts of money, borrowed mostly, to do a job, that barely breaks even, then, plus other kit, for other jobs, in the yard. It really doesn't add up, try suggesting it to 'dragons den', and cringe, when they answer.
As far as l can see, nothing will/can alter, until farmers get paid a proper price, or we alter our systems, to where we don't need so much contacting, the first, is more likely than the second. What should happen, is contractors should stop doing work, at below/at cost, that in turn, would decimate many smaller farmers, which creates another load of problems, it's just a bloody great mess, with few long term answers.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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